A lot of the pro choicers argue that if convenience abortions are made illegal, women would get "back alley" abortions from inexperienced, uncertified practitioners, risking injury and/or death. And this is a bad thing.....why? If you are willing to murder another human being (and yes it [url=http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html] is another human being)[/url]for the sake of convenience, then you deserve the injury that may come along with it. Abortion should only be carried out if the pregnancy threatens the mother's life.
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#Offtopic
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They're going to have abortions anyway, so why not legalize it? Since this logical also applies to guns, I have just broken the logic of all conservatives and liberals.
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Studies show that, even the way we have things now, many women die of back alley abortions. Shouldn't we be trying to help these women? (some of) Both sides are guilty of pushing their beliefs while not actually extending much of a helping hand. Women don't have abortion for fun. At the same time, 80%+ of women who see sonograms of their child cancel their planned abortion. Simply helping them would reduce the rate of abortions. Simply making things illegal is not the wisest thing to do (see the war on drugs as an example). Law change can not exclude social change.
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4 Replies[quote]Abortion rights advocates should not cede the terms "pro-life" and "right to life" to the anti-abortionists. It is a woman's right to her life that gives her the right to terminate her pregnancy. Nor should abortion-rights advocates keep hiding behind the phrase "a woman's right to choose." Does she have the right to choose murder? That's what abortion would be, if the fetus were a person. The status of the embryo in the first trimester is the basic issue that cannot be sidestepped. The embryo is clearly pre-human; only the mystical notions of religious dogma treat this clump of cells as constituting a person. We must not confuse potentiality with actuality. An embryo is a potential human being. It can, granted the woman's choice, develop into an infant. But what it actually is during the first trimester is a mass of relatively undifferentiated cells that exist as a part of a woman's body. If we consider what it is rather than what it might become, we must acknowledge that the embryo under three months is something far more primitive than a frog or a fish. To compare it to an infant is ludicrous. If we are to accept the equation of the potential with the actual and call the embryo an "unborn child," we could, with equal logic, call any adult an "undead corpse" and bury him alive or vivisect him for the instruction of medical students. That tiny growth, that mass of protoplasm, exists as a part of a woman's body. It is not an independently existing, biologically formed organism, let alone a person. That which lives within the body of another can claim no right against its host. Rights belong only to individuals, not to collectives or to parts of an individual. ("Independent" does not mean self-supporting -- a child who depends on its parents for food, shelter, and clothing, has rights because it is an actual, separate human being.)[/quote] Even Ayn Rand disagrees with you.
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10 RepliesEdited by Jebediah Kerman : 5/16/2014 9:10:17 PMIf you want an abortion you should just hang yourself. Problem solved. #TheRepublicanWay
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At three months it's still just a clump of cells, most of which are still stem cells. There's no potential for thinking or feeling, so there's no harm caused to it by aborting it. Point is, having an irrational care for them only causes problems for those who would be better off without the child. The truth is, there are actually living human beings that you most certainly don't care for and it'd be more beneficial if you placed your care on them rather than those who can't think nor feel and generally are the cause of collateral damage.
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It's not murder because it's not human.
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2 RepliesI don't fully agree, but you're on the right track. A woman seeking an abortion -- legal or illegal -- does not deserve harm. However, if a woman seeks an illegal abortion that is potentially dangerous, the ensuing injuries exclusively her fault.
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When I came here I was expecting to get one.
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That is such a terrible argument. "We want to save lives because every human life is special, but if you want an abortion and you die having a dangerous one you deserve it" Good game Retardicans no rematch.
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No more fapping, guys.
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Edited by Porsche 914: 5/16/2014 6:51:05 PM[b] [/b]
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5 RepliesAbortion isn't murder. If it is, then killing any living cell with human DNA in it is murder.
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Edited by FirstGreyWolf11: 5/16/2014 8:19:12 PMYou know, when I see issues like this my first thought is "This is definitely the job of politicians and intertweb uzers to decide and not people who spend their lives actually studying and teaching philosophy" Edit: not bashing either OP or topic itself simply a side comment meant to further induce brain function
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And if a woman is -blam!-?
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2 RepliesAlso, until it can live outside of the mother, it isn't a human.
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10 Replieswhy can't people just shut the fuck up and let other people live their lives?
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7 RepliesYes, ban abortion and just put the babies up for adoption.
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I raise my glass to you.
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Longface threads are always entertaining.
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1 ReplyEdited by Bong Cognition: 5/16/2014 7:20:13 PMAlso, I will again state that the ending of an innocent life, human or not, isn't inherently reprehensible. What matters is the intention of an act, along with its consequences. [i]You[/i] are in no position to judge either.
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2 RepliesFor the record, whether or not the life that is created at conception is a human being is a subjective matter. There is no absolute law of the universe that dictates what a human is.
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4 RepliesI knew somebody would be this much of a hypocrite eventually. I don't want to kill the baby, but I'm ok with a mother dying in the process of killing a non human. [url=http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/10/how-i-lost-faith-in-the-pro-life-movement.html]By the way, I can throw around articles too.[/url]
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2 RepliesSounds like the title and plot for a low budget b-movie
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I think those making the argument that something should be regulated rather than criminalized (though the former is ostensibly just a looser form of the latter) because the act will be done regardless, and in a more dangerous setting, just expose a deeper issue -- kind of like legislating to make healthcare more available to poor people while ignoring the outrageously costly and broken system that's in place. Even arguing that legalization will make it somewhat safer acknowledges the [i]wrongness[/i] of the action, it's just an appeal to utility that fewer people will suffer as a result of it. Anyways, the point is that abortion is probably never going to be criminalized again. It's fighting a losing battle. And it definitely doesn't help to say that women put into the desperate position of abortion deserve to be harmed.
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13 Replies[quote]I'm gonna sound like an asshole here: no vagina, no opinion.[/quote] This as well. Telling a pregnant woman what to do with her child is like telling a cancer patient what he should do regarding treatment with his cancer. They're the sufferers, they have full right what to do with their body.