JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by IceApfel: 11/30/2018 9:18:26 AM
31

Ulan-Tan and the symmetry of Light and Dark

It’s me, your friendly neighborhood lore Hunter Vanguard! [spoiler]For those that don’t know, I won a competition on here, so I now get to call myself the official #lore Hunter Vanguard. I’ll make sure I live up to that position. https://www.bungie.net/de/Forums/Post/249593663?sort=0&page=0 Be sure to follow the rest of the competition. [/spoiler] This post is about one of my favorite lore topics in Destiny, that recently has entered my mind again. I’m talking about Ulan-Tan and his theories on the light and the darkness. Most of you should know what I’m talking about, but for those that don’t, here is a short recap: Ulan-Tan was a controversial Warlock associated with a group called "The Symmetry". Like the name suggests, he and the group believed that the light and the darkness have a necessary symmetry and need to be in balance. The Symmetry was denied a seat in the city Consensus and Ulan-Tan’s teachings were labeled as dangerous by the Vanguard. This is one of my favorite theories on the darkness, because it still leaves room for other theories to fit in. Today, I’ll explain why I’m a strong believer in this theory. ___________________________________________________ To sum up Ulan-Tan’s believes, we need to look no further than the Grimoire card "The Darkness" and the lore tab of the exotic ship "Symmetry Flight". Grimoire Card, The Darkness: [i]"Ulan-Tan's Thesis considers the Darkness a necessary symmetry to the Traveler in a cosmic balance. In this view, the Traveler's goodness led it to sacrifice for others, and it is up to us to return this goodness by healing the Traveler."[/i] Lore tab, Symmetry Flight: [i]"I propose a simple experiment—look around. You see light. You see darkness. There could not be one without the other. They are two sides of the same coin. If it is true for these Newtonian echoes, why would it not be true of the purest, paracausal forms? Therefore, I conclude: the reason you persecute me is not because of the symmetry. It's because of the truth beyond this truth, the truth which you most dread: if we could destroy darkness, but we had to give up our Light to do so, how many of us would make that trade?"[/i] In Destiny 1, Ulan-Tan’s name and his thesis were only one amongst many references to the nature of the darkness and we all know that "the darkness" was an undeveloped concept in D1. From all of the theories referenced in that grimoire card, this one has made it prominently into D2. ... Intermission: [spoiler]Saint-14’s Position is also very reinforced, since we have seen the pyramid ship forces, but it isn´t mentioned in D2. [i]"Saint-14's Position argues that the Darkness was an invading armada, an alien force of incredible - but tangible - power. Some adherents believe that this armada sprang from species rejected or discarded by the Traveler for their sins."[/i][/spoiler] [spoiler]Season 5 Edit: Ulan-Tan has made it into D2 once more. The new Eververse armorset is his armor. He’s being referenced again and again, just sayin.[/spoiler] ... Destiny 2 is slowly but surely introducing the darkness, so it should be the game that has the references for what the darkness actually is. Ulan-Tan is referenced multiple times in Destiny 2. We have the "Symmetry Flight" ship, "Ulan-Tan’s Grove" on Io and the lore entry on the exotic ship "A Thousand Wings". Why keep him and his thesis around if it turns out to be nothing? Let’s get into more practical evidence: You all remember the moment Ghaul’s light-smoke-liquid-ghost is destroyed by the Traveler, thereby shattering his cage. The looming god wakes from his slumber and sends out a wave of light, a god-wave some might call it. The wave of light spreads throughout our solar system and galaxy and further beyond, until it hits the black tetrahedron ships, which we can assume are the darkness or its forces. They light up, and turn towards the source of the wave, us. There is symmetry in this moment. As one power wakes, the other does too. The entity of light becomes active from this resting status and so do the ships that have been floating dormant in far space. The events that led up to this also have symmetry in them. As the Traveler chose his place for the final stand against the darkness, it was close to winning. The darkness, I mean. If the darkness had won this final battle, the balance would be completely lost. Then, miraculously, the Traveler defeated the darkness and most likely caused it to flee. With this much power used, the Traveler went dormant and so did the darkness, presumably. This would explain why they are just floating in space and not destroying some other civilization that doesn’t obey the final shape. For every victory of one side, there will be a loss of the other one. This has some further implications: First of all, good news and bad news: 1.We can’t loose 2.We can’t win This is why Ulan-Tan’s thesis was disliked by the Vanguard. It’s not really a great moral booster to your soldiers if they know they can’t win. Remember: [i]"[...] If we could destroy darkness, but we had to give up our Light to do so, how many of us would make that trade?"[/i] [spoiler]D3, anyone? [/spoiler] This also has some implications about our Guardian, [i]the[/i] Guardian. It’s widely accepted that the darkness will or could overpower us fairly easily. Imbalance in power, you see. Isn’t it weird that there is this one rando guardian that kills gods left and right, managing feats never thought to be possible? I believe this the "universe" balancing the playing field a little more. If this is all true, there is one interesting conclusion we can make about the Traveler. If the light and dark represent these cosmic forces, then the Traveler is either the only source and origin of the light, or it’s its only representative. If the Traveler is doing badly, so is the light. If the Traveler is dormant, so is it’s opposite, the darkness. I’m not sure if we can call the pyramid ships the only source of darkness tough. Ulan-Tan also believed that the light is connected through the whole universe. Grimoire, Chamber of Night: [i]"Your discovery is perhaps the greatest of our time. If the Hive were able to infect the Traveler through this long-lost shard of its battered shell, Ulan-Tan's theory may be true - all Light remains connected, across space and time. We cannot let our enemies use this power against us." - Ikora Rey"[/i] If the Traveler is the only source of light and spreads it to everywhere, then it’s imprisonment had far greater effect than we thought. And we can prove it. The Drifter, everyone’s favorite, was outside our solar system at the time of the imprisonment. He and the leftovers of his crew all lost their light in that exact moment too. Again, not sure if this would apply to the pyramid ships and the darkness too. So, what can we learn from all of this: If we don’t want to be caught up in an endless war between cosmic forces, we need to destroy both darkness and light. How exactly that would play out? Maybe we’ll see in due time... [i]"[...] If we could destroy darkness, but we had to give up our Light to do so, how many of us would make that trade?"[/i] ___________________________________________________ That was my take on Ulan-Tan, hope you enjoyed it. It’s a lot to read and think about, but it’s worth it. See ya!

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • This is what should be in the lore subforum

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • "teachings labeled as dangerous by the vanguard" Nice to see the vanguard and the democratic party have something in common lol Suppressing information

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    3 Replies
    • bump for da lore

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • Bump for later Also, this is one of my favourite topics to have a thumb

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • If only the ppl that actually work on the game paid attention to the lore writers, activision would be much happier with the game. So would we...

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      4 Replies
      • I really hope they don't go the symmetry route. If they do, then there's no point in fighting for anything. The dead orbit guys would be right, and the best decision would be to abandon the Traveller to the darkness and flee into space. It's important to realize at the world of D2 is incredibly dark. There are, maybe, a couple of million living humans? For all the gods we kill, humanity has nearly been killed off and is hanging on by a tiny thread. That's why I would rather avoid this potential plotline... it's depressing, and fairly implausible, to have a guardian civil war. If it happens, stick a fork in humanity, they're done. They're almost done as it is.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        5 Replies
        • The traveler being weak wouldn’t make the darkness weak that’s not how this theory works. Think about it if the light is weak that makes the dark strong we could stomp the darkness to the point where it’s almost gone but we could never destroy it. That’s what it means and it would eventually come back it’s like a constant tug of war in which no side can win.

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          66 Replies
          • I didn't know much about Ulan-Tan before this, so thanks! It also ties into a thought I had the other day. Just like Oryx used the dark to "take", the Traveler uses light to "take" and create guardians.

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            3 Replies
            • Off-topic, but I always read this zone as "Grove of Orang Utan". For those of you who don't know what that is, it's a species of monkey, in very general layman terms.

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              2 Replies
              • I very much love Ulan-Tan and his theory as to me it’s the most plausible idea on the darkness that as we all know was undeveloped. As we go further throughout Destiny’s history it seems almost everything can trace back to Tan’s theory. I’d love to have met him instead of Toland as I personally think Ulan-Tan would be a much better character than the let down that was Toland (ingame wise).

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                1 Reply
                • 1
                  If Ulan-Tan's theory is right, then we've been at our weakest and so too has the Deep been at its weakest. Remember, the Pyramid ships were also dormant, so whatever last resort the Traveler did, it rendered the Armada comatose, which is intelligent when you think about that. It's also a gamble. It stands to reason that if we exist, we may have an arch nemesis we've not encountered yet. Final Fantasy 14 has a similar theme, and you do encounter "Warriors of Darkness." If the Light is connected, do you think the Deep might also be? We are bearers of the Light, but it does seem that we're learning more and more about the Dark and the Light, and it's likely we'll be using the Dark at some point; we already have to some degree. In the end, I don't know if anyone in our system will survive unless the Traveler decides to sacrifice itself for good, but would that have consequences? We've seen what happens when Ghosts die. Could you imagine the Traveler dying? The pyramid ships?

                  Posting in language:

                   

                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                  7 Replies
                  • Congrats on hunter vanguard homeskillet

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                    1 Reply
                    • Honestly his theory is kinda boring It’s a constant struggle and no one side can ever secure the victory.. it’s like having a tie. No fun.

                      Posting in language:

                       

                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                      1 Reply
                      • Sooo..... Ulan-tan=gray Jedi?

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        2 Replies
                        • As I was going to St. Ives, I met a man with seven wives, Each wife had seven sacks, Each sack had seven cats, Each cat had seven kits: Kits, cats, sacks, and wives, How many were there going to St. Ives?

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                          2 Replies
                          • Both the light and dark is weak. That’s why they send out their champions to fight for them, the light sends us guardians out and those who will appeal with dark sending out all who oppose the light such as the worms, vex, hive with personally creating taken.

                            Posting in language:

                             

                            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                            2 Replies
                            • I always thought Ulan's was the most accurate. If Bungie is smart (which is dubious) Ulan Tan's thesis will be right, we will discover this. However, I predict a rift/civil war between Guardians, as some who have grown accustomed to their power will refuse to give them up. We will then have to face NPCs with guardian powers. Now that would be a very interesting major plot line.

                              Posting in language:

                               

                              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                              5 Replies
                              • Okay, so, a few things A) awesome read! B) congrats on winning the contest C) really looking forward to more of these D) still an awesome read! Keep ‘em coming!

                                Posting in language:

                                 

                                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                1 Reply
                                • May I say it? Pressure. The purpose of truth is piercing, and divides that which is extra. Nothing given over to relation ever fails to meet its counterpart, even irl.

                                  Posting in language:

                                   

                                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                • [quote]Ulan-Tan is right, there needs to be a balance, after all that’s mainly why I choose to be a Dredgen, we need light and Dark to survive. -Dredgen Aku [/quote]

                                  Posting in language:

                                   

                                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                • You're my..boss? I'm cool with that! TY

                                  Posting in language:

                                   

                                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                  1 Reply
                                  • Edited by Shattered Mind: 11/14/2018 6:56:38 PM
                                    Well done. A good recap of the two primordial forces so far. [spoiler] For those that disagree with this post and the theories of Ulan-Tan, I advise that you remember this mantra: the brightest lights cast the longest shadows. [/spoiler]

                                    Posting in language:

                                     

                                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                    1 Reply
                                    • Like most others, Ulan-Tan and Saint-14’s theories are the ones that I personally support the most, but it raises the question of why the Darkness would attack the Light in the first place. During the Collapse, the Darkness forced the Light into dormancy, only to crawl out to the edge of the system and do the same itself. So, what’s the deal? Maybe they’re forced to?

                                      Posting in language:

                                       

                                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                      18 Replies
                                      • Lol? Competition no one knew about? I mean if you enjoy it have at.

                                        Posting in language:

                                         

                                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                        14 Replies
                                        • Ty!

                                          Posting in language:

                                           

                                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                        • #lore Hunter Vanguard

                                          Posting in language:

                                           

                                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                          1 Reply
                                          You are not allowed to view this content.
                                          ;
                                          preload icon
                                          preload icon
                                          preload icon