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9/18/2018 1:13:51 PM
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Please pause, I was going to be snarky, but you need to understand that it isn't Sleeper.
It's not. Sleeper Simulant is not the issue. And changing it is only going to shift the meta to something else. I responded to Dmg's post and I think this needs to get out there.
The problem is not a particular weapon. Any invader that comes through with heavy has a HUGE advantage over the defending team. All because of the element of surprise. THAT is why these things are a problem. So I will get right to the point.
Either remove heavy from the invader forcing them to engage the enemy team with a super or in actually guerrilla style combat. OR leave heavy but add an audio call out as to where they are invading from.
"Invader at steps", "Invader at ruins", "Invader at base"...
You can't give the an over shield, complete element of surprise, and a full arsenal. Only coordinated teams can counter this on a regular basis by knowing who is covering what invasion zone as it stands. For solo queue players, this makes them sitting ducks.
So to recap, remove heavy from the invader, or call out where they are invading from. Give the defending team a chance.
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1 ReplyI have to disagree with you there. It's not heavy in general. Its linear fusionrifles that are op. Because of the way they shoot you have no time to react and with sleeper even a bodyshot is deadly whereas a sniper rifle shots is basically the same way but they give away their position if they don't hit you in the head the first time.
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1 ReplyNo surprise about it. In the lower left corner it tells you "enemy invasion portal active" adapt to the game mode or leave it behind.
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Just remove the heavy ammo crate. We get enough from PvE enemies.
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1 ReplyEdited by TheArtist: 9/20/2018 8:35:21 PMDisagree. The defending team has their OWN heavy weapons if they are smart about taking turns using the supply....and they have a 4 to 1 advantage. Sleeper is a problem because you have PVE players who either don't have basic skills in PVP....or they have them but somehow dont' think they should be required to USE them. There is a power position on EVERY map if your a defender. Its your spawn point...and its the one place in the arena where an Invader can't spawn in BEHIND you. So when we're being invaded....I make a break for that part of the map if I can......or I get to the nearest EDGE of the map that I can't. That gets me out of the center of the map where I can take fire from 360*...or (worse) take fire from BOTH AI and human opponents. So I both limit the number of directions I can take fire from....and I positon myself where I have a broad view of the arena. Then I start scanning for the red glow....or (worse) start looking for the white skulls. The goal being you don't want to leave yourself exposed so that you can be picked off from long range by someone you never saw....but also you want to limit the possible number of avenues of approach should the Invader decide to push you and force a closer range encounter. This is especially important if you're carrying lots of motes, because a good Invader will make you a priority target. Stop thinking that you're playing a video game. Imgaine you were trapped in that space by someone coming after you with a gun....and you wanted to place yourself where you had the best chance to survive with your ONE real life. Where would you go...and what would you do? Then DO IT.
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2 RepliesSooty but I disagree. Sleeper is a problem in gambit because it one shots to the body at any distance. I don't want it nerfed I'd rather it just be made unequippable for gambit. The call outs on an invader wouldn't work cause that'll just put a 1v4 on the person. Which no matter how much overshield you got your -blam!-ed. The meta would change yes but not the way you think it would on people depending on certain things. It's go to rockets grenade launchers other linear fusions snipers scouts shotguns supers you'd see diversity not the same weapon hitting you from across the map all the time.
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Omg seriously. Invader comes in dead center opposite your spawn or opposite the wave you are currently fighting. And there is ample notice he is there. And your team has heavy as well. I use to armor pieces with heavy ammo finder so it drops pretty often from kills. Plus spawns on map. I recommend a Grenade Launcher with proximity. It's a two tap kill. Even on proximity detonation and their over shield still two tap.
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I was actually curious as to why the location of the invader was never revealed.
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10 RepliesNo, it is perfectly fine as it is. No point invading if you can't do any damage to the other team because they know where you are. This is what makes it exciting! The problem is that players dont change play style. When invaded - stop playing pve and hunt the fricking invader!!!
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I have to say whether invader gets all that or not does not make a difference when it's 4v1 . If people would just stop shooting adds for 2 secs to all focus on invader TOGETHER he doesn't stand a chance.
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3 RepliesInstead of nerfing the weapon, which we all know will affect it in PVE. Change up the environment and some of the mechanics. You have heavy, you invade your heavy is removed, but given back when you return, thus creating more close range combat. I do my 9 matches a week and solo queue and agree that my team tends to get picked off. I tend to back off the fight take cover and look and I keep a ranged weapon and shotgun on me for any kind of ranged or close combat fight if I know they are using Sleeper. Honestly I think I've been hit by sleeper maybe once or twice in like 15 matches. I roll with Sleeper, yes but for the boss fights and the wizards. I never invade anyway, I'm a PVE player, not PVP. Plus heavy is scarce enough that I don't care to waste on another player and on the boss anyway to melt it.
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6 RepliesWhy do you people want to ruin gambit.
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2 RepliesThe problem is that the invader has hacks style advantages. They can see the players with names and info on how many motes they are carrying. This is basically wall hacks and an invader with the element of surprise and an overshield can sleeper you down before the drifter can tell you that you've been invaded.
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Disagree. Remove the wall hacks and everything is fine.
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1 ReplyWhatever the next meta will be, I can promise you its not capable of firing an instant kill laser beam across the map.
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66 RepliesI like that you've thought out an answer, but I disagree. Gambit is meant to be a competitive mode, in fact it is one. When my team of 4 plays, we go on 5+ win streaks very often, and yeah we lose too. When we have difficulty it's because our invasions don't go as well, because the defenders know exactly where to look out for the invader (just like we do) and snuff him out. Defenders do not need any advantage/disadvantage thrown their way. IMO it's because invaders feel at high play that they have just a short time to make an an impact that they are pigeonholed into using a high damage long range weapon that requires no precision. If spawn was more random invaders might feel they could make a bigger impact with a shotgun or grenade launcher. As it is even a bad team can counter a sleeper invader by hiding at spawn, and now the invader can't do anything with it. Obviously you disagree with me, that's fine, I just strongly believe the predictable spawn is a major issue in Gambit and the underlying issue with Sleeper's overuse.
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4 RepliesYou put yourself at the business end of a weapon, you get the business. That’s not the gun being op, that’s you sucking. You’re 1 vs 4, chances are good you die - it’s an expectation. No nerfs are needed, only buffs.
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9 RepliesEdited by DuBChiri2: 9/18/2018 6:14:59 PMUm...its a 4v1 when you invade. If the invadees have sleeper you can and will get messed up if you don't. If you are the invader and you have sleeper, you can and will mess up the ones you are invading. Sleeper doesn't only make invading easier, it also makes defending easier. The invaders overshield really only protects you from primary weapons, but snipers and the works still demolish you. It's not the bonuses that makes invaders so powerful, but it's sleeper itself. You can flinch a sniper or other linear fusion to death with primaries, dodge rockets, grenade launcher rounds and keeping your distance makes shotguns worthless. Sleeper is a one-shot linear fusion no matter where you shoot, is the only heavy in the game that can one-shot a super with ease, it gets a ton of ammo, and it's easy to use. Sleepers only weakness is that you have to charge up a round, but everything else works in the weapons favor. Sleeper IS the problem, but one that doesn't really have to be nerfed to be fixed. Just reduce the ammo it gets in gambit. I've stomped and have been stomped while invading or being invaded, but I've NEVER been short stopped by or shortstopped others, with any weapon as easily as sleeper. I got 15 kills in a single gambit game using a normal linear fusion and sniper rifle. I would put down players with or without sleeper sometimes with ease and sometimes not at all, but I've been stopped more easily by sleeper than anything else in this game mode. It's not hard to use nor is it hard to be destroyed by it. Snipers require headshots, other linear fusions require headshots and they STILL can't one shot an enemy super.
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1 ReplyEdited by B312: 9/18/2018 3:52:37 PMI think they might be making changes to the weapon globally. Mainly because of how many posts demanding damage-dealing weapons I've seen, it's hard to miss them; even for Bungie. Not only that, but the current situation in PvP is another thing they might consider. Seems it's time to start making suggestions on their pins.
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4 RepliesEdited by joren nicholsen: 9/18/2018 2:00:25 PMNO it is sleeper and its because the way pvevp works ok here's, why sleeper is an issue it's because unlike in crucible death does not cause the player to drop their heavy ammo. because of the mobs, players can quite build up quite a stock of ammo for it quickly and on top of that, it does a ton of damage to the boss. what this all means if you have a weapon with really crazy aim assist, extremely long range with the power to drop people from across the map even if they are in super and the to get the ammo for it is really easy and is a great for burning down the final taken. no one is saying nerf sleeper they are asking for the way sleeper works in a gambit. gambit is not the whole game and the people that are asking for this are not asking for it to be changed outside of gambit just that inside of this mode this gun needs to be changed. as for your changes its a 1v4 the invader needs the boosts he gets otherwise there would be no point to invading you would get destroyed everytime you tried it. the only viable one is the stripping of heavy ammo but even that is harsh becuase its unlikely that the would be able to give you back the ammo tha was taken away when you invaded.
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I totally agree with you. no nerf to it.. damage wise. 1. damage fall off at significant range.. a possibility that lessens its effect on long range pvp maps but, in reality on pve maps, when are you that far from the boss ever that you need to have that range? 2. invader looses heavy when the invade.. an interesting idea as it also has a consequence of loosing your heavy in a trade to take out the opposition. I love this idea. consequences for actions. 3. call our or red dot on map indicator as to where the invader came in or simply as red dot as invader on your radar. All of these ideas would drastically improve the issue of any weapon, be it sniper to shotgun , sleeper to chaperone etc. OHK should be happening if you are out in the open, or the opposition gets the jump on you. One last issue.. spawn killing.. man that is a little bit of a problem as many of the gambit maps have long long range sight lines to the spawn location to easily pick off players.. thats simply bungies fault.
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12 RepliesIts 1v4......
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5 RepliesI would much rather have bungie remove the players location on the map. Make the invader have to be active. If the prime evil is up you pretty much know where their at anyways.
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8 RepliesName one other weapon that can one shot body shot no matter the circumstances from across map. If you can then maybe I will agree the sleeper isn’t an issue. The only proof you should need is 90% of the destiny pvp community will always use what ever weapon is far better then others (uriels gift, origin story, mida, and graviton to name a few) as soon as one gets balanced they then rely on the next one. They all need a crux to appear good.
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I could not agree with you more. Well stated. Too bad Bungle only listens to crying.
