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Edited by A Faceless Man:
6/24/2016 2:53:38 AM
244
Bungie, you're still missing the point.
I'm reading through the " This Week at Bungie - 6/23/2016" and I just get the overwhelming feeling that Bungie is focusing their attention on irrelevant things.
The first thing that stood out to me was "We tried something new to help you find your friends in the activities you want to play." I haven't seen to much commotion about "finding friends" in-fact this is a redundant update as you could previously see where your friends where by checking the roster. Furthermore, who cares about "finding friends" the majority of players in destiny want customs, I want to find my friends in customs, whats the use of "finding friends" if we can't play against them? C'mon Bungie. Why waste time updating such useless stuff, I just don't get it.
DeeJ then explains why for "science" purposes they made updates to the blade dancer, and gunslinger. Which is just more proof they don't even play crucible enough to even understand the dynamics. Gunslingers and Bladedancers did not "reign supreme", I'll explain my take of it shortly.
First, they showed a graph from only 6v6 playlist, this is the first mistake. Roaming supers in a 6v6 are always going to dominate for that exact reason. You can "roam" while in them. It doesn't take long to figure out that you're going to average more kills as a blade dancer or gunslinger in a 6v6 playlist opposed to a striker titan, bubble, bow, or nova. Thats just common sense. These classes aren't "reigning supreme", they are offensive roaming supers. Again, C'mon Bungie. It makes little sense how there are 6v6, 3v3, and the occasional 2v2 playlist, and the rational behind updating and entire class is based off of information gathered from just one of those categories?
Moving on, they go to explain " When one Class becomes the default choice for anyone who wants to do well in the Crucible, we see that as a problem. We chose to bring the Hunters down from their position of dominance because it is our hope that every variety of Guardian will have a fighting chance."
I mean at this point it's evident they don't play crucible. No one was complaining about bladedancers or Gunslingers? I just don't understand the "science", the data is exactly what I expect it to be, for the reasons I mentioned previous. In 6v6 roaming offensive supers will be dominant. Thats just obvious, absolutely no one had the mindset that blade dancer/gunslinger guaranteed a win. Just doesn't make sense. I understand the thought process but it just doesn't coincide with what actually goes on in crucible.
Play your game like the rest of us, get an actual feel for the game, and learn what is a problem and whats not by experience and not spreadsheets.
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Thank you for voicing this. That's exactly what I was thinking. Only, I played gunslinger not because it was going to guarantee me a win or a higher KD, but because it complimented my play style and I really enjoyed using the class and all it had to offer. I think maybe that data they got was a direct effect of Mayhem Clash. Because honestly gunslinger was the best way to go in that game mode. That's the only thing I can think of where the gunslinger would be that dominant. And if they based this stupid nerf off of that little bit of data...well...like you said. They should be looking at all the different game modes. The fact that they didn't just shows a huge laziness on their part.
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1 ReplyEdited by Wallaby Vonwise: 6/24/2016 3:05:09 PMI've more than spoken my peace on the nerfs. Obviously no one is debating the much needed PvE buffs, most of the rest though... Especially the hand dealt to the hunter classes... Well I'd say my point is, I read this weeks 'this week at bungie' and what I got out of it was, [u]"Oh no, we hear you - we just think we're right. Here's why we think that. That's why we're going to ignore your feedback and leave it that way."[/u] So moot point huh? I mean bitching enough usually gets specific action taken but I can't see them recanting a sweeping balance adjustment and they've stated their position anyways. sucks, but I mean... I guess it is what it is... Again.
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The whole Hunter nerf thing is unjustified. The graph difference looks big, but we are only talking a 10% difference between them. If you knock out the more defensive classes (Defender, SunSinger), the difference is 1.08 to 0.98. That is insignificant.
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For everyone agreeing with Bungie's graph showing that Gunslingers/BladeDancers have higher KD's by 10% than any other class, so they needed a nerf, consider this: Hunters have light armor. Light armor does us no good in CQC because our punches, grenade throws, etc, all happen at the same rate as other classes. Therefore, most people running light-armored hunters play combat at range. When you combine ranged combat + roaming super, you are GOING to have a higher KD on average. The 10% difference is not that big. IMO, its JUST AS PLAUSIBLE that the higher K/D of Gun Slinger and Blade Dancers have is the result of players on those subclasses engaging in long-ranged combat, which will yield them a slightly higher KDR, and then stack ontop of that the kill potential from having a roaming super. The table they post on its face supports the Dev's assertion that hunters needed to be brought down a rung, BUT their spoken analysis on the issue does not ONCE mention the fact that on average, hunters have MUCH less armor than the other two classes. This is KEY because light armor usually means your playing at range and using speed to your advantage. That playstyle will net you a higher KD ALONE, regardless of what class you are playing. So playstyle alone could ALSO account for the 10% differential in the KD between Gunslingers/Blade Dancers and other classes. For those who would point to the fact that nightstalkers also have light armor and a roaming super and do not have a 10% superior KD, also consider the fact that the nightstalker super doesn't typically pile up kills like the gunslinger or blade dancer could, even when Quiver is being used. Quiver is harder to aim, takes a half-beat to shoot a single shot, and you often miss your mark. To sum things up, the 10% K/D differential could EASILY be attributed to HOW the hunter was actually being used and NOT to the fact that any of their abilities were OP. It's really not THAT big of a difference considering how big the K/D differential was when Sunbreakers first hit the scene.
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1 ReplyWow. Well done.
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3 RepliesA rock was seen out of place on mars, The destiny severs will be offline for the day.
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I'll keep posting this. This is Bungie showing us their data. https://youtu.be/sIlNIVXpIns
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7 RepliesSo it was ok for Sunbreaker and Stormcaller to get hit,(both that have duration supers) but not Hunter subclasses?
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they should just disable supers in pvp that would fix the whole oh yea thats the only way the u tubes get their kills so they can brag so every body is screwed lol
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A lot of the problem here stems from the fact that the guys running destiny now didn't design the overall game, they worked on parts but those who had the vision of this game have left or been fired. They are not only getting out of touch with the player base, but getting out of touch with destiny itself.
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Bring back the double shade step. Bungie, you buzzkill. Nightstalker is hurting, being so below the Kd line. Attica! Attica!
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Agreed.... ~Davis The Humble Forums man.
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4 RepliesI haven't agreed with a lot of the changes Bungie has made to this game when they've seemingly made those decisions based on the user research. I feel like confining your logic to analytics and data is a super poor way to design a video game. I've been here a while. I feel like the old Bungie used to actually play their game and make changes primarily on logic and experience. Now, I feel like they're making changes based on math, and while it's probably more efficient, I feel like the changes just don't make as much sense to players who don't experience the game in binary. Ultimately, to me as a player, it just seems Bungie has looked at their data and drawn conclusions that are contrary to actual experience. Weapon balance is a great example. When they tune weapons based on data, they are making the assumption that players use weapons primarily based on effectiveness. That's a ridiculous notion. While it's certainly a factor, most players will use the weapons they identify with and many other factors, unless, of course, the game essentially requires certain weapons for success (such as most boss encounters requiring everyone to pound away with sniper rifles). Which is weird, considering they stated they developed this game in spite of the idea of throwing math at enemies. They didn't want that, but it's exactly what they seem to be designing the game for. It's bizarre.
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#BUFFDEFENDERS https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/207429046/0/0
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5 RepliesIt's interesting people are doing this for the hunter, but when the warlock and Titan got their nerfs no one was there.
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26 Replies[quote] I just don't understand the "science", the data is exactly what I expect it to be, for the reasons I mentioned previous. [/quote] If this is true [quote]In 6v6 roaming offensive supers will be dominant.[/quote] And this is true.. Why would stormcaller be so far below these two? Or sunbreaker? Or sunsinger? Why would the two hunter roaming supers be so far ahead of the other 3? [quote]Thats just obvious, absolutely no one had the mindset that blade dancer/gunslinger guaranteed a win.[/quote] It's pretty widely accepted that if you pop gunslinger in a trials round, we better win that round. or someone shit the bed. [quote]Just doesn't make sense. I understand the thought process but it just doesn't coincide with what actually goes on in crucible[/quote] Yeah, it does. Hunters have had the highest global KD across all subclasses since launch. You shouldn't be bitching that they're trying to fix it. You should be celebrating it took so long.
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9 RepliesEdited by The 7th fall: 6/24/2016 5:59:27 PMYou know when Deejsticle's buddy put the stupid line of "We toned down Hunters to make way for other subclasses" (short translation) I just facepalmed... if you want people to use other sub-classes try BUFFING THE UNDERUSED ONES YOU IDIOTS!!! And that lame a** excuse of "Oh if we make you too powerful things will be chaotic and go by quicker", well duh at this rate I'd prefer to have quicker matches rather than dragged out boring ones. What is also another really bad facepalm is that Deej showed and talked about "numbers" for the usage of certain subclasses and reasoning for nerfing... Bungie really doesn't take community input seriously, aside from the obvious Crucibabies. Also I loved it how Sunsingers are somewhat in the middle(translation: Balanced) and yet Firebolts and Solar 'nades took hefty nerfs, and Viking Funeral has been nerfed into a trickled down version of Melting Point. It's no wonder "#Nerfstiny" is becoming trendy right now.
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You crucibabies need to stop whining. Gunslingers and Bladedancers were overpowered and did need to be nerfed. Quite a lot of people have complained about Bladedancers and Gunslingers. You just don't want to admit it. And they don't understand the dynamics? They made the game!
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Man if they played their own game like we do there would be nobody left at the computers to actually make changes.
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Lol another salty huntard
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Good post. Makes sense. Too bad the developer lacks common sense.
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4 RepliesEdited by GOAT Spartan: 6/24/2016 5:42:37 PMThe stats they posted say otherwise. I can attest to the gunslinger and blade dancer being the top class, with the hunter in general being the best class suited for pvp. Also, the class will still be useful. Defeat comes from the failure to adapt to battlefield changes, and if you cant bypass the nerf and still make the hunter work, then maybe you should consider playing COD where they basically hand feed you everything. The hunter has been the class for crucible since launch, with most of the community being made up entirely of hunters. So instead of making excuses to your obviously piss poor crucible skill(yes i checked your characters), how about you start becoming more adaptable and learn to be unstoppable, regardless of how much they nerf things?
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6 RepliesOp thinks he knows everything. Typical forum cancer.
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Classic bungie trying to throw numbers at you instead of listening to what the community has to say. Hunters were never a big problem. I understand some of the nerfs like to DoT grenades but where are the nerfs to fusion grenades that practically auto lock onto people and are a guaranteed kill? They need to tone down the lock detection of those things because its tracking is ridiculous. Bungie if your reading this please! If your going to try to balance the game lets factor in everything instead of nit picking things that haven't been a real issue.
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They literally ruined this game. Nothing is fun to use anymore. Whatever.
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1 ReplyEdited by Lil_The_Myth: 6/24/2016 6:37:51 PMThis is a joke right ? You have like 17 days on a hunter. Have you ever played crucible against another Hunter ?
