JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Service Alert
Destiny 2 will be temporarily offline tomorrow for scheduled maintenance. Please stay tuned to @BungieHelp for updates.

Forums

3/22/2014 6:26:02 AM
9
Leave them alone, they are a research goldmine. Having those completely isolated tribes also means completely isolated DNA that can be used to pinpoint human evolution and migration, not only has their DNA been frozen in time, but their culture has as well.
English

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • I wouldn't entirely assume that. I'd assume that they'd have a lot smaller gene pool, but mutations must have taken place at some point. -blam!-, for all we know, they might actually have some crazy weird traits.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • They'll have a couple mutations, but their genetic markers will be very distinct from all other people on Earth. If they are along a human migration path,we should be able to trace modern DNA back to them. We have already done that with other isolated groups, but I think we initiated contact with them to do so. Once you contact them, you run the risk of them wanting to join the modern world, or otherwise significantly altering them.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by Steel Assassin: 3/22/2014 7:03:17 AM
    You take the scientific/archaeological viewpoint, but I'll have to disagree. Even though I'm a student of History and I would love to understand much more of humanity's past, I don't think we should refuse any innovations that aren't inherently dangerous to them or us (or exceptionally costly) just to study a [I]potential[/I] representation of the past. Or is this part of your "scientific trolling"? I'm too tired to make a distinction.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Not trolling at all. By contacting them, you not only ruin the research potential that is already proven very valuable in previous cases, but you also risk wiping them out with many diseases they've never been in contact with, and there is very high chance you will destroy their entire culture, which isn't something that should be forced upon them, unless they are cannibals or something horrible like that.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Would you consider reading a book for me? Buy [I]Speaker for the Dead[/I]. I think it does a nice job tackling many different viewpoints that you, I and others share about such a situation. In either case, I never once said it was a good idea to force anything upon them. But I think it's cruel to refuse any offers of advancement to them. If you had medical knowledge that could keep my sister alive, I would like to learn it. If you know how I could build a better shelter to keep the weather from creeping in, making us sick, I would like to know it. If you knew how I could farm with better efficiency, build better weapons to hunt, all so I and my community won't starve, I would like to know it. There is a theory that exists stating culture and technological advancement is mainly due to geography; that the resources in the region civilizations grew were key to the technology we ascertained. Thus, it was trading with civilizations and the interaction with other cultures that allowed technology and advancement to occur, sharing resources and how resources could be used to irrigate and create ships, clocks, weapons, etc. (An excellent example would be ancient China, an incredible world power that continued to advance up and stay top dog until it figuratively closed its doors.) Think about that for a second. Isolated tribes don't have that kind of pleasure. They don't get to interact and learn new ideas. While the modern concept of keeping a tribe "pure" sounds good in theory, we steal from them the opportunity to advance and learn new ideas. There's a reason Atlantis is a myth; no sole, small and untouched culture can hope to achieve the resources and advancement to compete & learn as quickly as civilizations that intermingle.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • You begin with the assumption they would prefer to have our technology. Hell, plenty of people that have it don't want it. We have high suicide rates, pollution, and disease. We have people that want to go back to healing crystals, faith healers, and refuse to vaccinate. So there is definitely something in people that wants to be back in a more tribal state. So yeah, our life expectancy is better, but are we any more happy in life? The problem is the simple act of contacting them to choose basically eliminates their choice to keep their own culture or not. All the cultural exchange you speak of happened because cultures branched out. Isolated peoples left obviously have little desire to do so, or they would have in the last 20,000 years or so. Knowing that they are valuable to us as is, that contact could kill them all (has happened repeatedly), and that we would be forcing them to deal with a culture destroying reality, I feel there is a very strong ethical argument to be made for not disturbing them. You do have a valid point in that our medicine would benefit their mortality, but I cannot be certain they would choose to live longer in a modern world in which they have nothing, or go on within their own society they have created for themselves.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by Steel Assassin: 3/22/2014 8:29:20 AM
    [quote]You begin with the assumption they would prefer to have our technology.[/quote] No, I do not. I only offer a scenario where this may be. And if we do not give them the opportunity to decide on this for themselves, we are engaging in an act of cruelty. [quote]All the cultural exchange you speak of happened because cultures branched out. Isolated peoples left obviously have little desire to do so, or they would have in the last 20,000 years or so.[/quote] Perhaps, and this may well be the case for some or even most. I'm not an expert on reasons for migration. Perhaps some cultures found regions that were adequate enough to support a small community, but not enough to sponsor overpopulation and a need to expand, migrate or make a desire to contact any outside culture. And yes, some cultures have rejected interaction, and this isn't too surprising as even more "modern" cultures in recent history have attempted isolationism. I'm not arguing whether or not cultures should be forced to deal with the fact they're not alone on the planet (that's a different point altogether, although you keep accusing me of making that point here). I'm arguing that uncontacted cultures should be given the chance to understand what advancements have been made for humanity as a whole, and that these advancements could not just be given to them, but taught to them, and most importantly, could be made/invented by them themselves. To restate, I make the distinction between contacted cultures and uncontacted cultures. [quote]and that we would be forcing them to deal with a culture destroying reality[/quote]When Europeans first made contact with Native Americans, they perceived us as riding islands to their land, our items as holy artifacts, and us insane for eating the blood of Man. These so-called culture destroying realities didn't destroy anything; our items, beliefs and culture were easily integrated, our guns were used for hunting by Native Americans centuries before the American Revolution, and when Columbus arrived they were already so familiar with these realities that they rowed to him before he even made it to shore in under to undergo trade. I think you and our society as a whole overestimate how culture-destroying new truths may be. [quote]but I cannot be certain they would choose to live longer in a modern world in which they have nothing, or go on within their own society they have created for themselves.[/quote] I didn't say they had to or should move in to "our world," either, though if they wanted to do that, that's their choice. It could be as extreme as that, offering them a home in our cities or in some government-funded reservation of sorts, or something simple as offering them additional resources, possibly through small trade; iron so they could build stronger tools, food in bad times, domesticated livestock, etc. Or anything and everything in-between.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • In order to research them we'd have to contact them or kidnap some of them when no one is looking

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • We have plenty of technology to help us watch them without them knowing it. Don't think that would be a big problem. Collecting DNA without disturbing them probably wouldn't be too hard either. We leave it pretty much everywhere. Just follow a group of hunters and collect some hair/blood they leave behind after they are gone. I think it would be best to try to leave them intact just in case future researchers could use them to discover more than we can learn from them already.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

You are not allowed to view this content.
;
preload icon
preload icon
preload icon