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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by Good7tuff: 3/29/2021 12:16:43 PM
109

Feedbback: Crucible experience as a casual newbie

Okay, as this is a feedback forum, I thought I’d share my thoughts and (hopefully) constructive criticism. So don’t take it as a whiny or negative post. First of all, I was introduced to Destiny in January 2021, and I immediately fell in love with the game - the depth of lore, the visuals, music etc, everything. One thing, however, that I mostly avoid is Crucible. I’m a casual player, not really into PvP, and not really good at it, I acknowledge that. And I’m sure it has been all said a million times, but as in recent TWABs Bungie mentioned they want to encourage more new players to participate in the Trials of Osiris and Crucible, I can tell you exactly why most new (and especially casual) players would rather avoid it like a plague (based on my own and my friends’ experience, as well as numerous posts on reddit and the web). Being bad at PvP at first is normal, one could improve over time, by being bad at first and trying again and again until they become better. But that implies some kind of progression, gradual improvement. I’m willing to learn and improve, but with Crucible at the moment you’re being thrown into a bowl of chaos, where most players seem to be hardcore PvP players, and you’re there just hopelessly trying to survive. Funny thing is, the most usual answer to this is that you should “get gud”, as it’s your own fault you’re bad. And while I partially agree, the game doesn’t offer any way for a newbie to learn, except while being steamrolled by veteran players with expert handling skills of Felwinter Lies, The Last Words and such. Hardly a fun experience. Yet even a tough competition is supposed to be somewhat fun, exciting, no? I’ve also heard that it used to be SBMM and they changed it to CBMM, due to hardcore players protesting the SBMM, which in all honesty: - as a system is completely dumb (you wouldn’t place kindergarteners to play football agains professional footballers and expect them to just learn and enjoy the game, while pros kick the shit out of them). - and as “veteran players”, it’s pathetic because obviously the only reason they want CBMM is because it gives them ability to farm weaker players for better K/D ratio - playing against similarly skilled players is, after all, more difficult. [b]EDIT:[/b] I've been informed that that's not the only reason, connection was also an issue etc., so I get it. And that’s the culprit of the problem - people wonder why casual players are not participating in Crucible - well, why would they? It’s barely enjoyable in these circumstances. Most who try it out, get absolutely destroyed again and again, so they end up finishing the necessary steps for whatever quests they have (or abandon them) and get back to PvE, as it’s far more rewarding and much more balanced. Or imagine dropping the player into a dungeon level the very first thing after they’ve created the character. Pretty much the same experience. Now I honestly don’t know how Bungie could address it, if they would. I remember back in high school I was playing some similarly fast-paced shooter games, which had skill/level based lobbies - there were both “free-for-all” and level restricted ones - and that worked perfectly, as when you just start out you were playing with total newbies, and as you progressed you would only be allowed to lobbies that were more or less similar level with your skill. And that was fun! It was balanced and it made sense. Sure, some games still were tough, especially in higher level lobbies, but not even close to the hopelessness of some of the current Crucible matches. But I doubt they’ll completely change the system just to accommodate new players. And also, I’m sure there are many solely PvP-focused players who are completely fine with the way things are now. And as I’m usually playing PvE I might not even be the player group to listen to when it comes to PvP, but I’m just saying that me, a PvE player, would gladly participate more in PvP, if it had some kind of fair matchmaking system that would make the game enjoyable for everybody, not just the high-skill players. Newbies vs newbies, skilled vs skilled - it’s not rocket science. My ¢0.02. Thanks for reading. P.S. By the way - I heard they made some adjustments to Iron Banner matchmaking this week, and I have to say it felt much better than normal crucible matches, much more balanced. So whatever they did there - I think is a good direction.

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  • Edited by SettledGorgon2: 4/2/2021 4:11:45 AM
    Probably a bit late to this but I'll share my take anyway. Lower skilled players often fail to understand just how shallow the skill gap in destiny is. The game, fundamentally, is simply not built to be competitive. While it might seem like you're getting absolutely destroyed by what appears to be a top 1% player with the flawless title, the truth is that they are actually top a 20-30% player and they are just taking advantage of the game mechanics which snowball into him being able to do things like 2 tap 4 people in a row with his 120 handcannon. These mechanics are available to everyone, and everyone is equally likely to die to them because of how powerful they are. Now, think for a minute about a good competitive game. Maybe it's CS, maybe it's Overwatch, maybe even valorant. What is something all of these games have in common? The fact that they balance themselves around being competitive. Now think for a moment about destiny. Do you see just how hilariously unfit the game is for a competitive setting? There are no checks and balances, it is as you said "a bowl of chaos." This is true for people of all skill levels. Ask any truly good player, they will all say the same thing. Viewing destiny as a game where competition is the best part is just silly, the game has absolutely 0 competitive integrity. I mean, seriously, the game aims for you and around 30% of deaths are trades, how ABSURD! As I've just explained, destiny is a game where skill doesn't take precedence in pvp. So why exactly should players be matchmade based on skill? The answer to that is that they shouldn't, not in destiny at least. The devs know this. That is exactly why a lot of perks and abilities are based around damage increases. It is fun to get some momentum and roll through teams instakilling people. The game was built exactly for that type of power fantasy, both in pvp and pve. Trials is a very good example of this. What other game has a mode where it rewards you for destroying 7 teams in a row? The answer to that is none, because other games would rather have players test themselves by playing other skilled players, having skill be the determining factor of who wins and loses. If that were the case in destiny almost no one would go flawless. In destiny it's absolutely possible to get an unlucky trade and lose a game, among various other things. Things like that don't happen in other games. Now, what can be done to help the casual player in pvp? Well, thats the hard part. On one hand you can add SBMM and subject players to a what would be the worst competitive experience available. Which to me, is the worst option for some of the reasons stated above. On the other hand bungie can start balancing things towards being more competitive. But this is also bad because it conflicts with parts of destinys core identity. No one plays destiny to be serious, but everyone plays destiny to have fun. But the sad reality is that it's impossible to please everyone, especially with pvp. It will naturally alienate people, but this is okay, if you do not enjoy the Crucible then do not play it. Asking bungie to cater this portion of the game to those who don't enjoy it or don't understand it will only water down the experience for everyone. [b]It's on bungie to ensure that the majority of loot is available to everyone. So having exotic quests that have Crucible steps is horrible for those who don't enjoy pvp. There need to be alternatives![/b] On a final note. The Crucible will always be there, and so will the innumerable resources for improving. Do not feel discouraged because you go 1-25, everyone who is a top player today was exactly where you are. [b]The learning curve is steep, but the incline isn't very high.[/b] If you play regularly and focus on improving you'll be dominating lobbies before you know it. Then you can also complain about SBMM with the rest of us haha.

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