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Destiny 2

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3/17/2019 10:02:27 PM
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The Warmind problem. D1 edition

Serious Note. The information below is only taking into consideration Lore from Destiny 1 and is not covering newer information from Destiny 2. This only serves to prove the point that Destiny 1 stated multiple times the existence of other Warminds. Destiny 2 Warmind lore is for another day. The question of whether or not there are multiple Warminds has honestly been annoying and troublesome. I can't tell you the last time I was happy with D2's explanation for Warminds. The Warmind dlc is my least favorite dlc of all time. (The Dark Below gave us Crota, which lead into TTK. Plus the gear was cool. This is also the opinion of someone who joined Destiny post Rise of Iron. Curse of Osiris was interesting if you don't look to far into it, though that dlc is almost as bad as Warmind.) If you separate Destiny 1 and all of it's content all the way through Age of Triumph, then there is a single, simple answer to the question. Yes. There are multiple Warminds that are at or near the same level of intelligence and power as Rasputin. Both ingame dialogue, implied lines spoken by people like Tyra Karn, Ghost, Eris Morn, and Ikora all seem to point to the conclusion of more than one Warmind. Specific lines from lore that support the point are: [quote]The legends are true, a Warmind did survive the collapse. Rasputin...an AI built to defend Earth.[/quote] This references Rasputin as A Warmind. Not The Warmind. Yes, other lore cards throughout Destiny 1 refer to Rasputin as THE Warmind. But, if you look at the context of the cards, it is easy to see that referring to Rasputin as this is just another way of talking about him. This is generally in part due to him being the only alive Warmind. Ghost in the Last Array mission [quote]This Array is controlled by the Last Warmind - Rasputin.[/quote] This for the first time (that we hear) refers to Rasputin as 'the Last Warmind.' a phrase not seen in Destiny 2. This phrase ended with the ornament for the Khvostov exotic auto rifle named The Last Warmind. Ghost in the mission Buried City [quote]This AI once connected to the Warmind of Mars.[/quote] This was the first reference to a second Warmind. I will say that if Bungie had just had ghost say the name of the Warmind instead of saying the Warmind of Mars, then this whole debate would be over. (For Destiny 1 that is, D2 still would've had it's chance to retcon the existence of Warmind #2) This leads into the case of the original Sleeper quest line, where there was the honestly grueling quest step to collect pieces of Warsats on Earth, the Moon, and Mars. Both of the pieces from the Moon and Earth each had a single description: AI-COM/RSPN This was presented below the item. Yet the item gained from the Warsat on Mars had the description: AI-COM/CHLM. This would imply the existance of a second Warmind, the Martian Warmind known as Charlemagne. Charlemagne first came into vision in Destiny's development, and would have been located on Mars as the Martian Warmind. The original Thorn quest would've started after gaining an item inside of the location known as Charlemagne's Vault. This obviously never made it into Destiny, though his name is reference in the quest and is inferred to multiple times. The theme of multiple Warminds was seemingly explored up through ROI. From the SIVA card. [quote]RECIPIENT: Assembly of Masters, S14 Cryptarchy  SENDER: Tyra Karn  SUBJECT: SIVA SUB-ENTRIES: Nanotech; Self-Assembling Materials; Cosmodrome; Warmind; Iron Lords; Clovis Bray SUMMARY:  We must reopen all previous entries on SIVA. What we once believed to be a colonial tool of the Warminds, destroyed long ago, appears to be active again. [/quote] From the Rasputin grimoire card. [quote]The legendary Warminds stood watch over our Golden Age colonies: vigilant intelligences stretched across thousands of warsats and hardened installations. When the Collapse struck, the great Warminds fought and died. Rasputin fell with them. Or so history believed. But centuries of explorers’ tales spoke of a surviving, elusive Warmind –a myth substantiated when Guardians exploring the old Cosmodrome made positive contact with Rasputin. A single Warmind still lives, diminished but unbroken. [/quote] [quote] Rasputin’s survival opens the possibility that other Warminds may be revivable, opening weapons systems to aid in City defenses [/quote] These cards state the existence of other Warminds, who all died or went into deep stasis caused by extreme damage due to the Darkness. Now when touching on the subject of other Warminds, Destiny 2 retconned their existence and gave them all Subminds status. Sticking with Destiny 1, there is one confirmed Submind, and another that I hypothesize may be a Submind. From the card Ghost Fragment: Old Russia 3 [quote]General Chen Lanshu is flying her glider. She carves around the huge bulb nose of a colony ship, one of the Cosmodrome’s towering children. Her eyes see temperature: she surfs the winter air rolling down off the cryo-chilled fuel tank. Turbulence rattles her bones. “General,” Malahayati sends. “You’re making Rasputin nervous.” “Am I?” Lanshu banks, grinning, spiraling around the fuel tank. The machine hates risk. Risk to the General, sure, but also risk to Rasputin’s ships. “Is that the word he used, exactly?” “He can be very charming,” the submind assures her. Malahayati works with Chen Lanshu, and she is certainly charming, but this is Rasputin’s territory, Rasputin the tacit king, the brooding wary first-among-equals. Yesterday Lanshu spoke to a colony ship AI and it called Rasputin ‘the Tyrant.’ Not without affection. And certainly not without respect. [/quote] (I secretly hope that AI mentioned is Failsafe, just a personal thing.) The one place where I question whether or not the Warmind in question is a Submind is in the Ghost Fragment: Vex cards. These cards speak of the Ishtar Collective researchers who were studying the vex at the time. The reason I believe this may be a Submind, and not a full blown Warmind, is due to the fact that the word 'Warmind' is left uncapitalized in all of the cards where it is mentioned. After scanning through all of the other cards, lore entries, and item descriptions, it is pretty clear that these three cards are the only use of the lowercase 'W' in Warmind. Examples: Ghost Fragment: Vex 3 [quote] DUANE-MCNIADH: Maybe the simulations are just billboards! Maybe they don't have interiority! It's bluffing! SHIM: I wish someone would simulate you shutting up. SUNDARESH: If we're sims, we exist in the pocket of the universe that the Vex specimen is able to simulate with its onboard brainpower. If we're real, we need to get outside that bubble. ESI: ...we call for help. SUNDARESH: That's right. We bring in someone smarter than the specimen. Someone too big to simulate and predict. A warmind. SHIM: In the real world, the warmind will be able to behave in ways the Vex can't simulate. It's too smart. The warmind may be able to get into the Vex and rescue - us. [/quote] Ghost Fragment: Vex 4 [quote] infinity. Up here they have to act by biomechanical proxy. No human being in the Ishtar Academy has ever crossed the safety cordon and walked the ancient stone under the Citadel, the Vex construct that stabs up out of the world to injure space and time. It's not safe. The cellular Vex elements are infectious, hallucinogenic, entheogenic. The informational Vex elements are more dangerous yet— and there could be semiotic hazards beyond them, aggressive ideas, Vex who exist without a substrate. Even now, operating remote bodies by neural link, the team's thoughts are relayed through the warmind who saved them, sandboxed and scrubbed for hazards. Their real bodies are safe in the Academy, protected by distance and neural firewall. [/quote] Ghost Fragment: Vex 5 [quote] RECORD 0-CHASM-03 We’ve decided not to abort. It’s insane, isn’t it? There are pressures on us I can’t tell you about until I see you again. The purpose of the system is intelligence, you see. It’s stenciled right on the hull: SxISR. Special asset. We would very much like to make it work reliably.  Our supervisory warmind has devised a drug it says will protect and prepare us. I am beginning to wonder if we were wrong about the merchant and the alchemist. Or if that explanation of time was incomplete. [/quote] All in all, I just wanted to create this post to raise awareness to the level of detail Bungie went into during D1 in describing the Warminds, leaving them mysterious as all hell, only alluding to their true power and might. I truly believe that if Bungie had officially name dropped Charlemagne in that Buried City Mission, then this whole debate would be different, and who knows. Destiny 2 might just have turned out different. But that's a subject for another post. AI-COM/CHLM SIGNOFF STOP STOP STOP V120NNI800CLS001

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  • Here’s the thing. D1 lore still could’ve been talking about Subminds. Subminds are still Warminds. “The Warmind Of Mars” IS Rasputin. Charlemagne is a Submind of the Warmind of Rasputin. Charlemagne is still technically a Warmind. Just an inferior to Rasputin. D2 lore is clearing up the fogginess of D1 lore.

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  • <"True power and might" Even D1 said they were useless to the Deep, D2 just makes that more believable ("need the Valkyrie" my ass). I will agree that Warmind's retcon of other Warminds was absolutely pointless. They'd already established that Rasputin was the strongest of all Warminds, why demote the others?>

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    • The Vex Ghost Fragments are the only evidence you cannot deny in regards to multiple Warminds, simply because of the fact that it’s an actual Golden Age recollection.

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