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Edited by Apex of War:
4/24/2015 7:09:36 PM
43
Crucible weapon re-tuning. Attention is needed, Deej.
I haven't logged as many PvP hours as some of you folks. But I have played enough to give solid input on a weapon re-tune. I am a hand cannon/shotgun user since they are still the best option to be had right now. That being said:
[b]Hand cannons[/b]:
They do not need to be retuned as a whole.
[b]Thorn:[/b] reduce DoT damage to 5, but allow shots to refresh DoT. This eliminates the [i]quick[/i] two head shot kill and it promotes the shooter to stay exposed longer to get the kill, but not necessarily requiring an extra bullet. Still a two shot kill, but with a caveat.
[b]TLW:[/b] replace perfect balance with another upgrade that's not Field Scout. Flared magwell is a good choice. Possibly even Extended Mag to give 1 or 2 extra bullets. Everyone gripes about the range, but what makes a bigger difference at ranged distances? Range or stability? A player shouldn't be able to go against Scout Rifles at range with the confidence they will win that gun battle. But a halfway useful perk should take the spot.
[b]Pulse Rifles:[/b]
They are strong weapons, I think the 10% buff may have been a little much. They did need a buff though. I think scaling the previous buff it back [i](edit)[/i] 7.5% instead of 10% is the answer. [i]Edit:[/i] All this would mean is 1 less damage per bullet on body and precision shots. Hardly groundbreaking.
[b]Assault Rifles:[/b]
Revert the previous nerf. Simple as that.
[b]Scout Rifles:[/b]
[i]Edit[/i]: After a little consideration, a base RoF buff would be welcomed.
[b]Fusion Rifles:[/b]
Reduce the spread slightly, but not quite to their pre-nerf status. This will allow fusion rifles to counter shotguns a little more efficiently, but not be mid range monsters like they used to be.
Everything else is in a good spot and seems as balanced as it's going to get, from my eyes.
Thoughts?
Edit: A good mix of responses. Though it seems the majority want some sort of change, even if not the ones I suggested.
Edit 2: So you guys know, I use Thorn and TLW primarily on my characters. Occasionally I'll switch it up with Bad Juju. If there were no more weapon changes in the game, I would actually be better off. I'm also not a Crucible superstar, nor am I a Crucible scrub. I do consider myself decent in the Crucible though. So this thread is not even close to a knee jerk reaction to getting -blam!- in the Crucible. They're just suggestions based off of plenty of Crucible/IB hours to balance the playing field a little better.
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2 RepliesNo nerfs, not even for handcannon! Just revert autogeddon!
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4 RepliesAR buff I agree with everything else is "it killed me a lot so please nerf it"
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6 RepliesEdited by xXflaw365lessXx: 4/23/2015 3:50:16 PM#StopTheNerfs Never understood why guardians insist on nerfing weapons that aren't OP. Nerfs are used when a gun is game breaking or so far imbalanced that players can't compete against these weapons. As far as TLW and thorn goes these guns are far from OP and not game breaking. Tlw is only strong on small maps and thorn loses to red death, hawkmoon, hand cannons and pulse rifles in general. Only thing you said that makes sense is to buff autos.
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Thorn should have a range reduction instead of a damage reduction.
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4 RepliesUsing TLW past mid range, the recoil is almost uncontrollable and you will be easily outgunned by other weapons, namely red death.
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2 RepliesBuffing is needed for the auto rifles, slightly for fusions. Hand cannons and scouts are fine. Pulse rifles might need a .5% drawback on damage.
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1 ReplyEdited by Shiloh Ivy: 4/23/2015 4:29:06 PMAll these changes are welcomed except for two things: 1.) Pulse rifles should be left alone. 2.) The perfect balance perk on TLW should be left alone. TLW should be left alone. It's a fine weapon. Removing the perfect balance would make the learning curve for this weapon way too high. Making almost no one use that. I get that you want balance, but removing that perk would destroy the gun.
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#StopTheNerfs
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Yes please at buff they are useless as is
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1 ReplyEdited by Sergeant: 4/22/2015 9:32:08 PMNot some bad ideas at all. Hopefuly you'll take a look at a few of mine. TLW: - Slow rate of fire down - increase magazine to compensate (8 to 12) - increase range and accuracy according to fire rate Thorn: - lower DoT from 7 to 5 - increase magazine from 9 to 10 Auto rifles: -Buff according to Rate of fire. ~low rate of fire less of a buff. ~higher rate of fire more of a buff.
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2 RepliesI Like your idea for Thorn. That's a great method of changing it without screwing it up. They should also increase the dmg done per tick against non-guardians. Your idea for Last Word is concerning. I'm not sure that will have the effect you think it will.
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2 RepliesSTFU FAG!
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Only thing I agree on Is the ar buff
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3 RepliesEdited by ImUrHuckleBerri: 4/23/2015 6:41:07 AMI would just reduce the stability damage increase from TLW by about 7 or 8%. Increase the recoil on Thorn it's too easy to shoot. Hawkmoon I really wouldn't change it much if anything just a slight range reduction or very slight rate of fire nerf. As for shotguns just get rid of rangefinder as a perk for them.
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I get a weapon I've wanted forever, for FIVE MINUTES and play nothing but pve WORRIED pvp complaints are going to change my gun for the worse AGAIN. Please please don't change anything in pve anymore
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4 RepliesWhat about shotguns? I still have no idea what primary 4 of the enemy player are using cause they're running around shotgun only........ They run out of ammo the first minute then wait for 20 sec for ammo to spawn, use shotgun only, run out, camp crouched at the ammo spawn for 20 sec and so on... Screw hand cannons, shotguns are by far the most dominant weapons in the game, since all the maps except for shores of time, have only CQC choke points... If fusion rifles at least don't get rebuffed again to their original state, there is no Fing way to stop shotgun users, especially if they're blinking around with it...
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14 RepliesEdited by DeAdRoMeO101: 4/23/2015 4:50:57 AMReduce your whining ,to zero. Or go back to borderlands . Say no to nerfers
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19 RepliesHandgun and shotgun go figure troll I bet you blink shotgun too loser and no buffs to fusion rifle decrease damage to handguns and take shotguns out of PvP there problem solved
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Auto rifle buff 1.0% so only 1.5% Nerf in total. Hand cannon Nerf 1.5% and Pulse rifle Nerf 0.5%. Scout rifle buff 3.3% making them a match for the last word or red death but a good choice for Mida and good headshot hitters
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No nerf needed.. So i ran around in PvE and tested somethings between all weapons, and came to conclusion as to why some weapons act the way they do. Here are my results - Pulse Rifles - they act the same for the most part. The spray is perfect, and will require a steady hand to land all 3 bullets in a burst. However while jumping these 3 bullets are sprayed in all direction, it increase slightly while ADS but it is uncontrollable. Scout Rifles - They are the longer ranged weapons, so i tested them from a greater distance and they were the most accurate from a distance. While jumping the bullet lands a good ways away from where i am aiming while ADS. While from the hip as we all would expect it is all over the place as well. Handcannons - These had me perplexed. I thought they were going to be like the scout rifle but they were not. I was using Thorn, Fatebringer and noticed the guns accuracy while jumping simply outclasses all weapons. Even aiming from the hip was more accurate than ADS of all other weapons. I moved back further where the scout rifle was, and was more accurate in every way with handcannons. They were more accurate at all ranges than any gun while jumping. So then i put on The Last Word, and it became very clear why this weapon is used by literally everyone. Yes it is a hip firing machine, but it shots so fast that while jumping at any distance it was the most accurate of all guns. So why does almost 50+% of people in crucible use Handcannons? Because it has the greatest amount of jumping accuracy and overall accuracy in the game, while also having the 2 fastest kill times. ARs - all are different but one thing is common, while you are jumping bullets are simply everywhere. These had the least accuracy, and at a range was down right terrible. The kick on some guns makes it impossible to use. Snipers - if you jump and get a headshot, its pure luck. The bullet goes so far north and side to side of where you are aiming you might as well never jump while having it equiped. If you aim at a distance from the hip, good luck finding where the bullet hit. From point blank range it would actually hit as far as all the way right of the screen. Icebreaker overall had the best hip fire of snipers. Shotguns - There is a reason why most people want a nerf to shotguns.. but lets be honest what can they do with it besides nerf range? So i put one on and jumped - of course closer range than any gun i was using. And i had to laugh at the results. There was literally no affect from me jumping, the bullets went right where i was aiming. I tried a few but all had the same result. Here is the reason that most people think they need a nerf but cant figure out what to nerf - they are one hit kills, without any jumping bullet spread. That is why people use blink, they can be in the air and have more accuracy than any weapon at that range, you have zero chance of killing them unless you evade them completely. After going through these results i can see why most people run Handcannons and Shotguns. In this game they allow you to move more, have the fastest killtime, and on top of that have little to no "jumping bullet spray". However like i said no nerf is needed for HC's and shotguns. The solution is right in front of everyone.. So your playing crucible you see a guy coming down the hallway, you anticipate where he is going to be, you ADS and he turns the corner, you land your first bullet he jumps, you jump evading him and he then pulls out his shotgun. You juke him out shotting from the hip over and over again, you put your whole clip on him, but nothing lands and he has yet to find you. He has not even shot, and eventually pulls the trigger for a one hit kill, all while he had no clue where you were.. i know everyone has done this, they have jumped around trying to evade a shotgun and juke them out so bad that the guy starts spamming his shotty and finally lands one. So Bungie I have a question? Why are Handcannons and Shotguns the most accurate guns while jumping and both have the best TTK in the game? Getting past that question what about a solution? Im not talking nerf these, im talking about fixing things. All weapons jump accuracy should be like HC's and shotguns. All weapons should have an out of scope retical. Zero aim assist should be involved while not ADS. So you want to use a weapon you like in crucible but it sucks but you keep dying from shotguns and handcannons and put it in your vault. Well this would allow you to be able to use your favorite weapon. Dont be upset and pull out tlw so you dont get laughed at for your Kd at the end of the game. No nerfs needed at all with this.. The results go as follows- Shotguns now have a counter. Everyone will say there is a counter.. but lets be honest the only counter to a shotgun is a better shotgun or stay out of the whole map and sit in the corner and not play. Snipers will now be relevant again. Yes some people use them, as do I, but anyone who wants to win and get in the action has to pull out the shogun. Well now here is a talented way of getting out alive and saying "Xbox Record that!!!" A steady hand, and pure reflexes, and you have a CHANCE! But the best results are with primaries. You now can be rewarded for completly juking out a shotgun player. You have the ability to kill them while jumping. You deserve the kill, and with difficulty shotguns can be countered. Bungie, I myself have been asking for nerfs to weapons as they are beating my heavy machine gun landing all bullets, but I am going about it in the wrong way. Its not the gun, its not the user, its the mechanics of the other guns not working the same way. Hopefully this thread does not turn into a spam feast full of 'get rekt' post. I will have a video posted asap going into further detail about jump strafing and of course show the results of the each gun going through the test i explained above. We are all here for the same reason, we love this game and all want the nerf threads gone, and i think this could be the answer. If anyone has any questions I am here to answer them.
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Edited by Enderium: 4/23/2015 5:35:21 AMHandcannons: Remove Thorn, or increase the time between shots. Remove hawkmoons RNG crap; I know its Native American inspired, but gambling, really?!?! TLW, it's fine where it is, just reduce its clip so it can be a true 6 shooter. PulseRifles: Good where they are, increase the base recoil on exotic pulse rifles. AutoRifles: Bungie hates these, they shall not be buffed. Shotguns: People need to figure out that they aren't OP. This is not Halo. They are not power weapons. ScoutRifles: I'm a scoutrifle fanatic, and I believe they are strong where they are. I top frag every game to prove it. Maybe a slight RoF buff to entice the community. AWP: Nerf it's scoped in range, cause it's literally cancer.
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Your proposed "nerf" to the thorn would actually make it stronger. So no.
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Maybe buff auto rifles for like 5%, thats it. No more nerfs.
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5 RepliesWhat about Pve just throw that out the window for pvp?
