They're PvP friendly... They're just [i]misunderstood[/i]... you just can't run & gun with them like an AR. You have to take your time, hold med/long range, and consistently place your shots ADS. With the right perks, you can score two burst kills in the Crucible... although three burst kills are [i]more likely[/i]. At short range you'll lose out to an AR just about every time... switch to a secondary. At longer range... depending on the impact rating, you [i]may[/i] have enough to spoil a sniper's shot and eek out the kill. For PvE they aren't too good... low ammo capacity means a ton of reloading in the middle of a mob. JuJu & Red Death have been getting decent reviews on 1st half of the CE Raid. I just put Bad JuJu on my Warlock with the Obsidian Mind... looks like Nova Bombs all day long ;)