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originally posted in:Sapphire
4/3/2013 12:18:20 AM
25
We're drowning in debt and going through budget cuts and stuff and he goes and does this? The government has more pressing concerns.
English
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+1. Economy and jobs first (that's their main mission), social and science second.
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Forget about the debt. Sequestration? I thought sequestration was supposed to be the end of the world as we know it?! But here's a hundred mil for brain research. I dun get it.
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Garland I am disappoint. Basic research is one of the best ways to ensure long term economic growth, and often has to be done by nonprofit organizations or governments because the benefits are so long term and widespread. Every dollar spent on this project will undoubtedly be paid back in orders of magnitude in the future. And by attacking the tiny drops of "unnecessary" spending you're ignoring the root of the deficit problem which is an aging population and a congress unwilling to pass tax reform or downsize the military-industrial complex we haven't needed since the late 70's.
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[quote]Garland I am disappoint. Basic research is one of the best ways to ensure long term economic growth[/quote]And on the flipside, that research doesn't count for much if the country goes bankrupt in the meantime. Unless something drastic happens, the country will be in shambles by the time this project gives out decent returns. [quote]and a congress unwilling to pass tax reform or downsize the military-industrial complex we haven't needed since the late 70's.[/quote]Then we should focus on that isntead of spending money we don't have.
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[quote][quote]and a congress unwilling to pass tax reform or downsize the military-industrial complex we haven't needed since the late 70's.[/quote]Then we should focus on that instead of spending money we don't have.[/quote] We're in agreement then :) [quote] that research doesn't count for much if the country goes bankrupt in the meantime[/quote] That's the thing though, even if the country did fall into anarchy that research would still be able to help others if any company or foreign country picked it up. And the research certainly wouldn't be the cause of the bankruptcy.
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If you've ever taken an macroecon class, you should ask for your money back. You sound just like the deficit scolds who claimed inflation would be well out of hand (lol, not even close).
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I'd love to hear how spending more money we don't have will solve our massive debt problem.
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Why is debt a massive problem? As long as GDP grows faster than the debt (which is what stimulus spending is supposed to (and has) accomplished), it makes no difference. Besides, the best way to cut the deficit is to raise revenue, and the best way to raise revenue is to increase the taxable base. The best way to increase the taxable base is to decrease unemployment. And the best way to decrease unemployment in an environment where demand is low is for the government to spend those dollars.
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If our GDP is growing faster than our debt, why is our debt higher than our GDP? Gross domestic product is completely proportional to the total labor of the country. Since labor = product, Gross Domestic Product is the amount of work there is in the country. Last I checked, about 1 in every 5 to 6 people are jobless. Remember, every penny the government gets, it gets from the people. A nation that tries to tax itself into prosperity is like standing in a bucket and trying to levitate by pulling on the handle.
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What are you even talking about? GDP isn't the amount of work in the country, it's a measure of production. It depends on the amount of work being done, not the amount of people working. Beyond that, GDP is GROWING faster than the debt is GROWING. It has nothing to do with nominal amounts. It doesn't matter if debt is higher than GDP as long as GDP is growing faster than the debt is (as is the current case).
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Idk what econ class you have been taking, but just because the GDP is higher than the debt doesn't make it ok. Also, our GDP is around 14 trillion whereas our debt is at 16 trillion so obviously we aren't doing too good with our spending choices here. Government spending is getting so out of hand that we might soon default and that would definitely screw over this nation. As long as debt keeps increasing like it is, our country will continue to decline like it is and soon collapse.
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[quote]Idk what econ class you have been taking, but just because the GDP is higher than the debt doesn't make it ok. Also, our GDP is around 14 trillion whereas our debt is at 16 trillion so obviously we aren't doing too good with our spending choices here.[/quote] I didn't say GDP was higher than debt. I said that GDP is growing quicker than debt (and that's with large companies sitting on absurd sums of cash). [quote]Government spending is getting so out of hand that we might soon default and that would definitely screw over this nation. As long as debt keeps increasing like it is, our country will continue to decline like it is and soon collapse.[/quote] lololol, the US will never default. The stimulus package is the only reason the recession never turned into a full scale depression. The only problem with the package was that it wasn't big enough. More spending would've helped boost demand (the measly refund given to each household was almost entirely used to pay off debt), which would've forced employers to expand and hire, reducing unemployment and increasing the taxable base. So as revenues from that increased base goes up, the debt is easily paid down.
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also I am not against this type of research. My point is that a 16 trillion dollar debt is too much and that we should be very concerned about it.
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Knowledge is power!
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In fact we should cut all medical spending!
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HOW DARE WE LEARN MORE ABOUT HOW OUR OWN BRAIN WORKS!
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[url=http://www.usdebtclock.org/]Like I said, we have more pressing issues.[/url] Let the private sector deal with funding research while the federal government fixes its shit. Curing Alzheimers is great and all, but it's irresponsible to spend so much money on something that will have no practical benefit for a number of years when we're in the middle of so many financial woes.
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Using vague terms like "no practical benefits" and scary looking numbers with no context is great and all, but it doesn't tell us why we shouldn't invest in this research. Will the research earn more then it spends in the long term? Would not funding the research and spending the money elsewhere actually be worth it?
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[quote]Using vague terms like "no practical benefits"[/quote]It's a research project. It will be years before it shows any practical applications. [quote]and scary looking numbers with no context is great and all, but it doesn't tell us why we shouldn't invest in this research.[/quote]You're not that stupid, mike. You know that we have a colossal amount of debt that is continuing to increase, despite budget cuts, government downsizing, and now the sequester. This project is just wasting money that could be better spent doing something that will actually help the country's current financial fiasco. [quote]Will the research earn more then it spends in the long term?[/quote]That question is sort of irrelevant considering we don't have any money to spend. [quote]Would not funding the research and spending the money elsewhere actually be worth it?[/quote]Most certainly.
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[quote]It's a research project. It will be years before it shows any practical applications.[/quote] The F-35 JSF program is years behind schedule, billions over budget, and has yet to produce a single combat-ready aircraft. It will be years before it can carry out any practical applications. The Manhattan Project was a research project. It took six years to prove nuclear weapons were constructable, let alone practical weapons. Jet engines originated as a pure research project that military, political, and scientific leaders dismissed as not worthy of funding due to being years away from any practical applications. Are you seriously going to tell me that we would have been better off saving the money and sticking with propeller aircraft and increasingly bloody wars without threat of nuclear MAD to temper the aggression between great powers?
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[quote]It's a research project. It will be years before it shows any practical applications. [/quote] Any debt reducing strategy will take years to work as well. And "practical applications" depends highly on who you are. [quote]You're not that stupid, mike. You know that we have a colossal amount of debt that is continuing to increase, despite budget cuts, government downsizing, and now the sequester. This project is just wasting money that could be better spent doing something that will actually help the country's current financial fiasco.[/quote] Like making new jobs for scientists and creating better ways to treat [url=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1647016/]diseases that cost us far more[/url] than this project will cost? [/quote] [quote]That question is sort of irrelevant considering we don't have any money to spend. [/quote] Yes we do. [quote]Most certainly.[/quote] Given all of the factors over the long term,... really?
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Edited by Garland: 4/3/2013 2:32:29 AM[quote]Like making new jobs for scientists and creating better ways to treat [url=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1647016/]diseases that cost us far more[/url] than this project will cost? [/quote]You mean making new jobs for scientists while simultaneously firing thousands of existing government employees because of debt problems? [quote][quote]That question is sort of irrelevant considering we don't have any money to spend. [/quote]Yes we do.[/quote]If that were true, we wouldn't be $16 trillion in debt and rising and going through all of these budget cuts and sequesters. [quote][quote]Most certainly.[/quote] Given all of the factors over the long term,... really?[/quote]Yes.
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So did you ever get that we actually profit from this or do you still think that this is a bad idea?
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[quote]firing thousands of existing government employees[/quote]That was the joke right?
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God that debt clock scares me.
