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5/23/2022 11:48:29 AM
34
Pretty much everyone hates timers in missions in video games.
It’s a lazy way for developers to make a mission or activity difficult.
English
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There are three ways to make a game difficult. One is a timer, two is bullet sponges, three is enemies that hit very hard. All three options have already been declared artificial difficulty. At least according to this forum. Elaborate mechanics don't work in soloable content. Besides that they have already been declared artifical difficulty as well as we have seen it in Spire of Stars.
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People really liked Zero Hour and it had a timer. I didn't do Vox that many times but I thought it was good.
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There was at least a legitimate story reason for the timer in Zero Hour: your were trying to beat the Fallen to the vault.
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Aren't you trying to beat the countdown to them bombing the planet in Vox?
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Not the same. This feels far more artificial.
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I would think if racing to a vault could be on a timer, having a timer for bombing a planet could be considered realistic. Maybe even more realistic. A lot of people just don't like timers, but the timer in vox fit with the mission.
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I would argue that vox also has a good story reason: you need to stop them from exploding the whole base.
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Doesn't work for me and didn't add to the experience. Part of the challenge of Zero Hour was trying to figure out the puzzle that was the ROUTE you needed to take while under the time pressure. Although I don't like timed content as a point of principle, I could at least see how Zero Hour benefitted from it.
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Fair enough.
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[quote]It’s a lazy way for developers to make a mission or activity difficult.[/quote] What ways of increasing difficulty [i]don't[/i] supposedly fall into that category? Having more enemies, making them do more damage and/or have more health all get described that way. The community hates the Champion system, overall. Adding mechanics isn't a viable solution here because that makes things even worse for the typical solo player; it's not like they're all soloing Dungeons with ease, is it? They could add a level cap, much like Contest mode, GMs and the Legendary campaign, but surely that would be just as lazy as a timer?
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It's not an issue unless you are resistant to any sort of learning process. The timer forces you to work on your strategy and prioritise targets. You can't just sit in the back.
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Timers force you to either run past enemies, or it becomes a DPS check. It is lazy because it’s one-dimensional and limits the ability of the player to find multiple or individual solutions to the problem. It also limits replayability. Because once you’ve found the way that the devs want you to solve the problem, there is little motivation to do it a second time.
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Yes, timers require you to make decisions which enemies you fight and which ones you avoid. That gives the game slightly more depth than just kill everything to progress.
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IOW, an incredibly uninteresting form of difficulty with very little replayability, once you complete it successfully.
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Not any more or less than your usual pew pew activity that you can complete with your eyes closed while wearing your PvP loadout.
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And what would be so wrong on being allowed to do that instead?
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That would make it boring. That game already is pretty easy. Avnd remember, this mission was designed with a threestack doing it in mind. I'm glad they put in a timer otherwise we would have ended with a Presage type of thing that apart from one single room had a laughably low difficulty level. And that one room had a room sort of a timer.
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Loot games are supposed to be easy when you’re at end-game. It’s the reward for the grinding and build-crafting. If you want to test your skill go play Dark Souls or Elden Ring. That why those games exist. What Bungie is doing is against the design and player expectations for this kind of game. Which is why they get such hostile pushback.
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95% of the game already is just pew pew. It's not like they ask you to flawless solo a whole Dungeon. If someone wants a tiny bit of challenge they can do it solo, otherwise there is always the option to do it as a threestack.
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These aren’t the games to play if you need to test your skill. They are [i]power-fantasy[/i] games. The point is to give you the chance to do/experience things that are either impossible to do IRL, or are too dangerous to try. Which is why it’s important to understand what kind of game you’re making. Bungie stubbornly refuses to do this. So they have to keep relying on the game’s appeal as an action-game/shooter to bail them out of the parade of mistakes they make (and refuse to acknowledge) In designing this game as a loot-based RPG.
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D2 caters to anyone. It has plenty to offer to people that just wanna shoot a few aliens and that's fine. But there also has to been stuff for the ones that actually want to do more, and tinker around with the builds which in the end only matters in end game and when soloing content. That's why we have all the mods and weapon perks. In most strikes and even raids it doesn't matter if you slap on random armour and weapons. But then we also need activities where they matter otherwise they become redundant.
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Look around. How many threads do you see where people are singing the praises of any end-game content except dungeon's or raids? Bungie's approach to difficulty is OUT OF STEP with the rest of the experience that they are trying to provide the player. Which is a MAJOR game design mistake. One that Bungie only gets away with because of its uniquely satisfying play as an action game. Destiny is successful in SPITE of its approach to difficulty. Not because of it.
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It's not a major mistake. All these elaborate builds are meant to be used in endgane. That's why we have them. In 90% of the content they don't matter a bit while in a Master raid, solo Dungeon or GM they they have an impact.
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It’s a major mistake, because these builds are supposed to make players feel powerful. Not simply adequate to keep them from being one-shot from across the arena by trash mobs. Bungie has forgotten part of the hard-won lesson they learned by having to overhaul vanilla D2. One of the sandbox devs said in an interview, “Oh, I understand now. [i]You want to feel like gods as you take on the enemy.”[/i] Yes, Josh. That’s what a [i]power fantasy game[/i] is supposed to provide the player. That experience is why they play games like this. The game is supposed to get easier as players level up and optimize their builds. If you’re looking to have their skill tested, this is the wrong [i]kind[/i] of game for you.
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[quote]That game already is pretty easy. [/quote] Which is the overall expectation for players by now. [quote]Avnd remember, this mission was designed with a threestack doing it in mind.[/quote] Then why is there no explicit warning on the Map Marker in Orbit? Something like "This mission is more stressful than others, consider grouping up!". Even fukn WoW does it with a simple "3 Players recommended" for certain missions. Putting 3 words in the Map Marker Description is not at all hard.
