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originally posted in:Liberty Hub
7/11/2016 3:50:51 PM
11
Allowing business to do whatever they please will most definitely give way to extreme racism and overt discrimination. Businesses will start blocking people out for ridiculous and bigoted reasons.
Does the term "Jews need not apply" mean anything to you?
English
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[quote]Allowing business to do whatever they please will most definitely give way to extreme racism and overt discrimination. Businesses will start blocking people out for ridiculous and bigoted reasons.[/quote] So the business's competitors will pick up the extra demand. First of all, how widespread do you think the problem is? Secondly, are you willing to hold a gun to somebody and force them to engage in a transaction against their will?
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The size of the problem isn't the issue. Whether it's one person or the entire US population is irrelevant. Discrimination is discrimination; regardless of the size Holding a gun to someone's head and requiring someone to do something by law are two extremely different matters. Your analogy is a very poor one. Would you put a gun to someone's head and force him or her to do his or her taxes? Would you put a gun to a child's head and force him or her to go to school?
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Edited by Stallcall: 7/11/2016 10:56:18 PM[quote]Holding a gun to someone's head and requiring someone to do something by law are two extremely different matters. Your analogy is a very poor one.[/quote] The law is enforced by violence and the threat of violence. If you're not willing to let people enter transactions voluntarily, if you're going to force people into transactions because you don't like their motivations for declining them, then you have to be ready to admit that you're willing to use violence to punish those who don't enter a transaction. [quote]Would you put a gun to someone's head and force him or her to do his or her taxes? Would you put a gun to a child's head and force him or her to go to school?[/quote] No, I wouldn't. 2/2 on Libertarian principles.
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Actually, in this situation, the law is enforced by fines and arrests. Violence is only used if the criminal resists arrest.
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[quote]Actually, in this situation, the law is enforced by fines and arrests. Violence is only used if the criminal resists arrest.[/quote] That fine isn't optional. At some point, you're going to be [i]forced[/i] to comply with the law. So let's describe the situation as it actually is. You're willing to force somebody to engage in a transaction against their will because you don't like their motivations for declining the transaction. Sound right?
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Too broad of a description. More specifically, it's because their reasons are either discriminatory or bigoted.
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[quote]More specifically, it's because their reasons are either discriminatory or bigoted.[/quote] Sure. What other motivations warrant the use of force? Do Muslims have to provide their time and services to homosexuals? Does the KKK have to accept a membership form from a Papist? Does an Orthodox Jew have to serve a KKK member? At what point do we draw the line and admit that people ought to be able to work at their discretion?
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Sometimes force is necessary. Most people don't like it, but there are times when there is no other option. I understand you're trying to go for equal rights, but what you're suggesting would have the opposite effect. If every business had the ability to do whatever it wanted, we would end up revisiting pre-Civil Rights Movement America, pre-Feminist Movement America, pre-Child Labor Laws America, pre-Non-Monopoly America. You're telling me that you would be absolutely 100% okay with this?
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[quote]I understand you're trying to go for equal rights, but what you're suggesting would have the opposite effect.[/quote] It doesn't violate somebody's rights to not engage in a transaction with them. That's absurd. [quote]If every business had the ability to do whatever it wanted, we would end up revisiting pre-Civil Rights Movement America, pre-Feminist Movement America, pre-Child Labor Laws America, pre-Non-Monopoly America. You're telling me that you would be absolutely 100% okay with this?[/quote] I get the feeling that you don't know what market forces are, or even unions for that matter.
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Is it against someone's rights as a human to be discriminated against? Yes, yes it is. Not every job has a union nor a market force. Do they cover the vast majority of jobs? Yes, but there are still some left out; and that's where discrimination will hit the hardest.
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[quote]Is it against someone's rights as a human to be discriminated against? Yes, yes it is.[/quote] No, because that "right" would supersede another's rights. A private citizen can decline to use his labor for any reason. It doesn't violate somebody's rights to not work with or for them. [quote]Not every job has a union nor a market force. Do they cover the vast majority of jobs? Yes, but there are still some left out; and that's where discrimination will hit the hardest.[/quote] An employer that discriminates is deliberately choosing to leave more demand in the market for his competitors. He'll face the ramifications, and nobody has to be coerced.
