I'm sorry but you can't compare special weapons, which are supposed to kill quicker, to primaries that are supposed to kill slower. That's an awful comparison. You have nearly unlimited primary ammo. You cannot say the same about specials (although special ammo could still afford to become more rare in the crucible). Specials are supposed to be strong, quick killing weapons. If you're using that argument, then you should also say that rocket launchers should either be nerfed to take longer to kill, or buff primaries to match a rocket's time to kill.

Why cant i compare primaries to specials? Look at COD. Their secondaries match the primaries time to kill and they have less ammo, except you cant find ammo on COD. Sure you could say that this isnt COD, but why do you think people havent quit COD's multiplayer? With the exception of ghosts and advanced warfare, but people still played black ops 2 during that time. That means that people, like me, played black ops 2 multiplayer for three years straight. Destiny's multiplayer couldnt keep me hooked for a month. Want to know why? Because i would shoot somebody with an auto rifle 20 or so times and they would one shot me with there shotgun or sniper. I dont see how anybody could make the ammo argument either. I am a pretty good sniper, and i can only remember one time i ran out of ammo because there are so many special ammo boxes and they regenerate really fast. There is a specific sniper to fix that problem too, the Icebreaker. Same for shotguns, the Invective.

If you're shooting someone with an auto 20+ times, then that's a problem on your end. The game is meant to have a medium time to kill. And when you introduce weapons like snipers and shotguns that CAN POTENTIALLY kill in one hit, it's balanced out fairly by limiting their ammo. It takes far more skill to consistently one hit kill with a sniper. It takes far more skill to get within one hit kill shotgun range consistently that it does to spray someone down with an auto. You can't speak for the whole community just because our played cod for a while. I was hooked to cod when it was good back in the modern warfare days. But I can say that I enjoy destiny pvp far more than I ever enjoyed cod. And that's because cod has no balance and is just random shit thrown together. This game, however, may not have great balance, but it's obvious where the devs actually made steps toward balancing out the gun play.

Im not literally shooting someone 20+ times with an auto rifle. Some auto rifles do 20+ damage to the head, and what 18 to the body? I think I do speak for a lot of the community. How many people have quit this because they only get killed by snipers and shotguns? I have read a lot of stuff on the forums about this same problem. Sure i have more experience on COD, but that doesnt mean i havent played Destiny's multiplayer. I played back when Vex and Suros were the Crucible gods, and i feel like it was more balanced during those times. It felt most balanced when Thorn and Last Word were the thing in crucible. I felt good that I would actually have a chance against a sniper and a chance against a shotgun. I cant tell you how many times I have shot somebody with about 10 shots with an auto rifle and they just one shot me. I dont find that to be balanced. I clearly have the upper hand, but because he has the chance to one shot me, i still lose the gun fight. Chance has no place in a multiplayer game. Again, ammo isnt a problem. Look at the burning shrine; i could get sniper kills left and right and still not run out of ammo, and still have a special ammo box waiting for me to get more kills. I think if they were to up the time for special boxes to respawn then it would balance it out a little more. Shotguns in Crucible dont require skill to use either. My friend who is absolute garbage at Destiny and Crucible went out and got a 10 kill streak with a blue shotgun. How does it take skill to get at close range to somebody, when it takes so long to kill with some weapons that they will be already barrel stuff you by time you can kill them? I cant stand people who say that they are good at Crucible, but they only use the fastest killing weapons. Oh yeah, and let us talk about heavy weapons. Let's see, they can still get outgunned by shotguns and snipers, or vice versa, so they are pretty well balanced. You say that this game has a medium time to kill? Dont you mean 1/3 of the game has a medium time to kill. Primaries have a medium time to kill. Heavies and Specials have a fast time to kill. Heavies have no downside. Snipers dont have an idle sway to them, so they are extremely easy for anyone to use from any range even if you miss the headshot, your follow up shot will be a easy hit even if the enemy is shooting you because it doesnt throw off your aim. Shotguns will get outgunned by heavies though if you arent within range. That leaves primaries. Primary vs shotgun=dead, Primary vs sniper=dead, Primary vs heavy=super dead, Primary vs sidearm=debatable, Primary vs primary=balanced. So that means that the only way to have a balanced game would be primary on primary gameplay right, but there is one problem. Why would people run around with primaries when they have a unlimited source of ammo for their snipers and shotguns and occasional ammo for their heavies?

I'm sorry but I couldn't read all of that. You do realize snipers haven't changed whatsoever since release? They have NOT become op and never were. I have no idea where you're getting these arguments, since snipers have remained that same throughout the games life, and shotguns have only effectively gotten worse... And another thing that doesn't make sense is how you're an avid cod player bitching about sniping in [i]Destiny[/i] of all games. Cod has that absolute most annoying snipers in ANY fps game. Destiny however? The sniping is crazy balanced. And the reason people cry about them now is because they see them more due to that fact that those same people crying about snipers, were the ones crying their asses off to get shotguns nerfed to the point they are now.

Im not saying that snipers arent balanced. You obviously didnt read what i typed, but i dont blame you; it is a lot. Ill sum it up. Snipers, shotguns, and heavies have a fast time to kill, and you said this game has a medium time to kill. Only 1/3 of the game has a medium time to kill. Primaries have medium time to kill. Specials and heavies easily outgun a primary, but no one use primaries because their is so much ammo for the specials. Sure, i complained a lot about snipers on COD, but snipers were balanced out because you could actually kill with other weapons.

Primaries are still a very viable option in the game. Saying they're not is a huge understatement backed by no real evidence. I love sniping and I love shotguns. By I can promise I use my primary far more than I use anything else. I agree that special ammo is too available for players, but that doesn't automatically make special weapons the only viable weapon type. Because they're definitely not.

Some primaries are a viable option. Some hand cannons are absolutely unusable and will never be used in crucible. Same for auto rifles. Scouts and pulse rifles are decent, but still get outgunned by even an average sniper or shotgunner.

Not true. I use every weapon type in the crucible effectively. I'm a very good sniper and a very good shot gunner. But that doesn't automatically mean that I'm unstoppable to primaries because I use those weapon types. Yes, I often outgun primaries with my sniper. But that's usually because somebody is using primaries at ranges that [i]should[/i] be outgunned by snipers at. Yes, I often outgun primaries with my shotgun. But that's [u]always[/u] because somebody is using primaries at ranges that [i]should[/i] be outgunned by shot guns at. People now for some reason think that if they have their primary out, then they should never get kill by a sniper or shotgun. When in reality, they're just shooting in those weapon types prime ranges. Not to mention the fact that people always forget to mention that when they get outgunned by a sniper, the snipers first shot usually missed anyway. Sniping isn't even close to as easy and requires way more skill than what people make it out to be.

You forgot about how snipers can outgun primaries at CLOSE range. Snipers are supposed to kill at long range, but i can't tell you how many times ive got outgunned by a sniper at close range on Destiny. Ive done it too. Ive quickscoped somebody who shot me first and i normally miss the headshot at close range, and then because the snipers have no zoomout or idle sway, i was able to easily hit my follow up shot and easily outgun the dude using his pathetic primary. Im going to say what you told me. You dont speak for the community. You might use primaries, but i can guarantee you that there are a bunch of people in crucible right now have a special out right now two shotting people at close range with a sniper. It happens all the time. Every single game i played.

You're complaining about two shotting with a sniper? Seriously? Please. Record gameplay of you running around with a sniper the whole game at close ranges. I promise you it won't end up the way that you and so many others make it out to be. I have no idea why you're even complaining about TWO SHOTTING someone with a sniper. At any range. Do you seriously think that snipers just shouldn't kill at close ranges or something? And yes, I've quick scopes at close ranges as well. But you and I both know that when it happens, even you sit back and say "holy shit". Quick scoping is not easy in this game. And two shotting at close range is entirely fair and makes no sense why someone would complain about that. P.s. Snipers aren't supposed to kill at long ranges only. They're meant to be the most effective at long ranges. Which is exactly how they function currently.