In the ongoing series about why players are leaving the game and how to fix it: Stop making the game frustrating.
(For context, this post was triggered by GMs now having modifiers, but this has been brewing for a long while).
* Don't add shitty modifiers to GMs. GMs used to be the one place we could get away from annoying randomness and weekly weirdness. Actually, don't add shitty modifiers anywhere.
* If the player base collectively hate a modifier so much you have to remove it, don't add it back in a worse version and think calling it "haste" instead of "momentum" will fool anyone, we are not idiots.
* Stop making PvE boss fights that only has one valid strategy, called "run around like an idiot and hope to survive enviromental damage while trying to land hits on the boss once in a while". This has been a pattern now since at least Lightfall. You used to be real good at making boss fights where the hard part was learning mechanics, timing, strategy, and placement, rather than this.
* That meeting you have, where you sit down and try to figure out ways to prevent players from completing activities, stop having that meeting.
* Rehire some people to do quality control. You used to be good at not pushing bugs.
* Stop forgetting you have a console player base. It is self evident that all difficulty now is baselined on PC play.
* Stop trying to make the streamers feel special by making stuff so hard to learn and time consuming that only people who play for a living are supposed to get through endgame content.
* There seem to be someone high in the organisation who has strong opinions about how the game is supposed to be played, and it seems like this person is a PC pvp hunter that thinks nothing other than jumping around like a rabbit on stimulants while at the same time landing nothing but headshots is "the only true way"(tm). Stop listening to this person when it comes to boss fight design.
If you continue down this path of making playthroughs unattainable for regular players, regular players will stop playing. Most players don't have hours every day to play, rather 2-3 hours pr weekend, and we are losing all those players.
Anyone tempted to respond with "git good" or any other toxic retort, go eat a wheat bun. The point is why people stop playing, and responses like that are part of that peoblem, not a solution.
And if someone tries the even dumber "you can choose not to play". Yes, I know. The whole problem is that that is what people do.
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5 RepliesHot take: they actually don't care that players are leaving, because it's easier to just cater to 1 specific audience than it is to flip flop back and forth pissing everyone off. Give how the game has progressed over the last 2 years, I would not be surprised to hear they are fully committed to supporting the game for a player base of about 50k.
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4 Repliesthis game sucks and bungie doesnt care. they only listen to streamers and they don't look at the forums.
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Whoever on the development team thinks frustration and struggle are so fun and enjoyable, I hope they have a frustrating struggle in every aspect of their life for as long as they keep making the game so ^^ <3
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games dogshit. just find another game at this point. the developers are d e i checkmarks.
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3 Replies[quote] * Stop making PvE boss fights that only has one valid strategy, called "run around like an idiot and hope to survive enviromental damage while trying to land hits on the boss once in a while". This has been a pattern now since at least Lightfall. You used to be real good at making boss fights where the hard part was learning mechanics, timing, strategy, and placement, rather than this. [/quote] Designing fights like this became a necessity because, even after several nerfs, Well of Radiance exists. People complained that too many fights boiled down to standing in a Well and unloading into a boss that barely moves. Even when the boss does move, like Nezarec, people will find a way to make them stop moving. If the boss isn't sufficiently threatening, like the Herald of Finality, you plant a Well at their feet and use a Sword risk-free. Rhulk is fine because his arena is flat and can forcibly move players, but they can't make every boss fight take place in an otherwise empty square. That leaves the most realistic option as forcing players out of the Well by discouraging you from staying in one place. Corrupted Puppeteer is a bit excessive at this, but now that I've done it a few times, I think it's a much better fight when you're dodging lightning strikes and using clones as fuel for higher damage, instead of sitting on the barrel and holding the trigger until the death wave comes. There's no denying that Master is a complete mess either way, but that's not what people will be complaining about week in week out. There are some excellent fights, such as Atraks and Golgoroth, that discourage Well because you don't stay in the same place long enough for it to be worth more than a pure damage Super, but again, making every fight like that would get just as repetitive.
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It’s all they’ve got man. They don’t know how to do anything else
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3 RepliesThey prioritized fixing the ball dupe glitch in Vesper's over the first secret chest. That should tell you all that you need to know.
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7 RepliesThey put counterfeit in expert onslaught. Where close range play is almost a necessity with how enemies spawn and rush toward the ADU. Then, when enemies die and drop ammo at your feet, and it's a counterfeit drop. You insta die to enemies that one shot you. It's not fun, and it's not challenging. At least in d1, when they had a negative modifier, they had a positive modifier to counter the negative. Which made alot of the nightfalls really fun. Bungie is beginning to be anti fun. They can't get pvp figured out. Nor can they with their pve anymore.
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4 RepliesI've almost reached that point where I don't want to log in anymore. Nightfalls used to be rewarding and FUN, not frustrating and idiotic. I don't even remember the last time I did a Grandmaster NF. Once I got my seal, that was it. I felt no need to gild it. I found that these activities are neither rewarding nor fun. I've been playing the game for 10 years and the same old -blam!- different day has gotten old. I haven't even done the new dungeon. After I realized that this was a rehash of the DSC raid, my heart sank. The creativity of the Bungie team has died. This is the state of the game for me. And since I'm one of those idiots who purchased the seasonal -blam!- and all, I can't totally quit. To get my money's worth, all I've been doing is doing the story missions just to see how interesting the story-telling goes. Oh well. To those who are still enjoying the game, what keeps you going? I'd like to know.
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[quote]* Stop making PvE boss fights that only has one valid strategy, called "run around like an idiot and hope to survive enviromental damage while trying to land hits on the boss once in a while". This has been a pattern now since at least Lightfall. You used to be real good at making boss fights where the hard part was learning mechanics, timing, strategy, and placement, rather than this.[/quote] Bungie has been making more bosses that require movement since Witch Queen. This development started because Well was to broken and there was no other way to endanger players during dps. I think the Vespers boss might be a bit too much becuase there is no real pattern. But imo Rhulk and Witness are perfect examples of great damage phases. All attacks are easily dodged but you can't just stand still and unload all your weapons. [quote]* Stop forgetting you have a console player base. It is self evident that all difficulty now is baselined on PC play.[/quote] What exactly do you mean by this? I play on console and I don't really see where PC players would have any big advantages. I've done pretty much all stuff that's available in PvE on PS5 and there were no problems. I get that PC has insane advantages in PvP but there the pools are separated. [quote]* Stop trying to make the streamers feel special by making stuff so hard to learn and time consuming that only people who play for a living are supposed to get through endgame content.[/quote] I'd say normal dungeons and raids count towards endgame content. And I know a lot of players that only play once or twice a month and they got no problem with raids, dungeons or GMs.
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4 RepliesBunyee I'm not doing any damich.
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The only way Bungie learns anything is if people stop playing. They've not done anything spectacular with the game in a long time. They keep putting out mediocre expansions, garbage seasonal stories, and unimaginative activities, but if y'all keep playing and pre-ordering the slop, there's no incentive for them to change.
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So Bungie is just being Bungie. Nothing new, move on.
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2 RepliesEdited by Wolves: 10/31/2024 1:28:12 PMA lot of the mechanics in this game are nothing more than annoying. Its like someone has gotten the words challenging and annoying mixed up. Maybe its time for the rest of us to move on, they ain't listening.
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I completely agree - I just deleted the game because I was tired of playing through the grand master all day and we couldn't do it! I'm -blam!- whoever came up with this! You're -blam!- bungie! I hope I get banned but I don't care, I deleted the game and will NEVER go back to these pathetic developers who burned out my nervous system in just 3 months of playing! And I played it for 10 years! TEN -blam!- YEARS!
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Edited by Magiscene: 11/1/2024 12:25:23 AMCouldn’t agree more. The game just feels like a slog fest now rather than fun. The Gms are just Battlegrounds and the hardest possible strikes these days. I used to love farming them but now I can’t even push myself to do it anymore. I miss the days when Gms were fun to farm like lake of shadows and warden of nothing. Instead of these modifier heavy activities that just force you to run only certain builds. I get we are more powerful and it’s endgame but still. Expert haunted lost sectors this year feel like a step in the right direction in terms of difficulty. With a half thought out build and some skill you can solo them. Unlike last year where you had to run triple strand titan to even have a chance to get to kill TANKY enemies that 1 shot you.
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4 RepliesThe exploding ammo drops that nearly kill you are quite possibly the worst thing added to the game. Especially when you kill an enemy at close range and it drops on you and explodes!
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Edited by adamndirtyape: 10/31/2024 4:45:31 AMI stopped making this game frustrating by almost exclusively playing something else nowadays. And when I do come back, like for the Festival of the Lost, I saw the event is riddled with bugs (invisible Eva, guns with the last year's perks, etc), so once again, I'm off playing another game. If I ever taught a course on how to retain players in a game, I'd teach my students to do exactly the opposite of what Bungie does. It shouldn't take an act of willpower to play a game.
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These new modifiers prove they dont have a clue what people want in this game. Omg I just completed one strike only for it to feel like I was going a Master nf 40 lvls below with this stupid Brawn Mod. They are useless at trying to keep people playing this game
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On almost all points, well said. They've taken the fun out of the game, 100%. At this point I think that they are purposely driving the game into the ground; it's so unfortunate because it was magnificent and truly unique.
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I don't like that the pinnacle chase was reintroduced. The only reason for it is to get people to spend more mats to artificially increase the grind. It's not increased it for me, though. It just means I've played other games instead of chasing a roll on rimecoat raiment that's above 63.
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They made this game more a chore fest at this point
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My request list is short; Restore the vaulted campaigns.(Red War/Curse of Osiris/Warmind/Forsaken) I am very ok with there being nothing new in the game for a few years if they can just get that restored. The game has no beginning and, by nature of live service; No end. So we sit in this limbo-state forever with no sure footing or history to look back on. I started after the game went free to play, so I never paid for Red War through Warmind, but if reintroduced, I would be completely willing to pay for it.. Not asking for freebies, just stuff I missed out on/didn't get to finish. But, it is what it is. And here we are.
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I just love how “THREE” players were match made into a basic lost sector.. and Bungholes calls it a haunted lost sector or whatever tf. So they make regular content extraordinarily passive and harder content extremely tedious. This is why I barely play aside from PvP… and I barely play pvp. Played one match last week, got carried on a map I despise, and got the hand cannon - for fun I guess. No more PvP since.
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5 RepliesEdited by STARS-Raven: 11/1/2024 12:36:59 PMI mostly agree with you but these are just ridiculous. [quote] * Rehire some people to do quality control. You used to be good at not pushing bugs. [/quote] Um...what? That has NEVER been true. Destiny has been a bug infested mess since Destiny 1 Year 1 and every release of content they ever drop is full of bugs. Edge Transit bug from forsaken Guillotine damage bug Lighting bug in prophecy has been around for like 3 years TELESTO -blam!- I played vault of Glass D1Y1 and have the video around somewhere where after we got the relic to dps atheon, we jumped through the portal to go back and got sent to two separate instances of the main boss room. [quote] * Stop trying to make the streamers feel special by making stuff so hard to learn and time consuming that only people who play for a living are supposed to get through endgame content. [/quote] This is just...no. First off there is ZERO content in this game that is made for and only completed by streamers. You could maybe make an argument for GMs being streamer tilted when they released them and bungie said they wanted GMs to be entertaining to watch. But even then, GMs can be completed by anybody. My crew hasnt played D2 in 2 years, I would bet money we could install tomorrow, hit power cap, and clear a GM. Thousands of not-streamers clear GMs every day. Contest raids? You have had hundreds of thousands of players complete them. Hard to make the argument that they are specifically built for streamers Do you not just like mechanics in content? Where it requires more than "stand in circle, shoot ads, throw ball at thing"?
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7 RepliesI think the GM sucks this week because it's light blade. Bouncing 1 shot shields. The boss' attack that nearly 1 shots you, has insane radius and fires like 15-20 projectiles at once. The GM is just annoying with or without mods.