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2/2/2021 1:17:02 PM
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What Sunsetting Shows Us
Sunsetting has obviously been a hot topic in Destiny. There are many downsides but it pronounces two major flaws in the game:
Lack of Content and Direction
Since the beginning Destiny has always had lackluster story. So much so that even the npcs "could tell us" or "didn't have time to explain." The Taken King, Rise of Iron, and Forsaken were better. But compare any of those to the stories of so many other AAA games and they get crapped on.
Destiny survives because of its great gunplay. You take away our guns and it leaves us with the lack of content you can't /won't make or recycle. Nostalgia makes fools of us but that's no excuse.
Ill give you two degrees of sunsetting in other games and why they work.
In Borderlands you have to reobtain your favorite gear every time they raise the level. But you have set places to farm gear and the game is swimming with story and funny writing.
In Guild Wars 2 my characters have had the same armor and weapons equipped for 9 years. Because they create a a ton of story and content. And I can re-skin any of my gear if I like the look of new gear.
One game is a looter shooter and the other an MMO. Both are similar to Destiny.
My final two thoughts which would greatly help the game are this:
1. Stop sunsetting altogether and focus on making fun content and stories.
Or
2. Sunset all you want but give us a core set of weapons that drop from specific lost sector bosses. Then we have a linear way to reobtain rolls on guns we like.
But either way more story would really help.
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2 Replies[quote]Sunsetting has obviously been a hot topic in Destiny. There are many downsides but it pronounces two major flaws in the game: Lack of Content and Direction Since the beginning Destiny has always had lackluster story. So much so that even the npcs "could tell us" or "didn't have time to explain." The Taken King, Rise of Iron, and Forsaken were better. But compare any of those to the stories of so many other AAA games and they get crapped on. Destiny survives because of its great gunplay. You take away our guns and it leaves us with the lack of content you can't /won't make or recycle. Nostalgia makes fools of us but that's no excuse. Ill give you two degrees of sunsetting in other games and why they work. In Borderlands you have to reobtain your favorite gear every time they raise the level. But you have set places to farm gear and the game is swimming with story and funny writing. In Guild Wars 2 my characters have had the same armor and weapons equipped for 9 years. Because they create a a ton of story and content. And I can re-skin any of my gear if I like the look of new gear. One game is a looter shooter and the other an MMO. Both are similar to Destiny. My final two thoughts which would greatly help the game are this: 1. Stop sunsetting altogether and focus on making fun content and stories. Or 2. Sunset all you want but give us a core set of weapons that drop from specific lost sector bosses. Then we have a linear way to reobtain rolls on guns we like. But either way more story would really help.[/quote] Beta player and I’m still confused on the story. 7 years in I’ll never understand it and never will care...
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1 ReplyIt also shows that 3. they're implementing a system of obsolescence that is entirely incompatible with the loot grind, rarity, RNG, sheer number of perk permutations, lack of ability to reroll, upgrade loot. 4. They do not listen and do not act upon their customers mass feedback.
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39 Repliesman, anybody that says "destiny has no story" is such a liar! Destiny's story is UNDERRATED! I doubt that Borderlands' story gets anywhere NEAR as deep, creative, and interesting as the Books of Sorrow, let alone the entirety of Destiny lore! what other AAA game has as expansive lore as destiny? as IMMERSIVE? Forsaken has a better revenge story than Last of Us 2, because in LoU2, there is NO reason to spare whats-her-name-villian, and the part where your supposed to relate to her utterly fails! and even worse, you, the player, HAVE NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER! in D2 Forsaken, you, both the character AND the player, only start with a surface level understanding of whats going on, and learning more is up to YOU! not only to learn about Uldren's corruption and manipulation, but to even CARE about it too! and even better, since the cutscene where you would (or wouldnt) shoot Uldren, is off-screen, leaving the event ambiguous enough so that you, the player, can decide if your guardian killed him or not! and why would you want to kill him? because he killed Cayde-6, a very popular character, i.e. many of us, the players, LIKED him, and where saddened by his death! we, both the player AND our character, have motivation to get revenge, we work our way there, and then we realize the truth at what was going on, and then got to decide if we DID get our revenge and kill Uldren, or forgive him because he was a pawn (albeit pretty much willing, but still manipulated none-the-less) and leave justice to Petra, who has every reason to execute Uldren, and would even if we wouldnt. and then even better, Uldren gets brought back as a guardian! A second chance at redemption, with a clean slate, but the tragic baggage of his past! AMAZING STORYTELLING!!! and even better? WE play a part in helping redeem him! and ourselves! if you DID kill him yourself, then seeing the new, innocent, and tragic guardian hes become leaves us with remorse for putting him in that position, but we redeem ourselves by helping him achieve his full potential as not only a guardian, but a new, BETTER person than he was before! but if we didnt kill him, we can mentor him into his new transformation that brings us both higher! what does LoU2 have? the INVALIDATION of the superior previous entry, a gay for the sake of gay kiss scene, a terrible, unredeemable character that you HAVE to forgive, and a gratuitous sex scene because of a dev's personal fantasy. oh, and the same old mediocre gameplay. D2 is an underrated game in almost every regard. is it perfect? no, and nobody claims it such, but it is BETTER than most insinuate, and even superior than most will admit.
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1 ReplyBungo is -blam!-ing awful at managing destiny, giving it real growth and squanders its potential that long term players can see.
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7 Replies-- GDPR: removed by user request --
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2 RepliesShut up, sunsetting is not new
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2 RepliesI would play again if there is stuff to chase... there’s just not... it’s a huge fail...
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9 RepliesEdited by DeathPony07: 2/3/2021 2:46:14 AMIt shows pure incompetence. The end.
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For me, sunsetting has brought a large amount pre-existing issues of issues in to the limelight. I am very anti-sunsetting, but for it to work, these issues need to be fixed. Issues that bother me, 1. Inconsistency Bungie states that they are sunsetting stuff due to power creep which I can get, but then they reissue weapons with no differences other than power cap. New gear replaces the old makes sense to me. The raid weapons are huge examples of this. Updating these weapons power caps each season, but not updating the current one I have just feels bad. Especially when they just increase the cap of the gun for new drops of a particular weapon each season (without making any perk changes or anything), and leave my old one behind. Now I have to regrind old content for a gun I already have, that has no differences in the versions just so I can add one season to its shelf life. Makes no sense to me. Rather them just add new weapons to the older activities. Re-issued guns with different perk pools is ok with me... for the most part. I just do not like being told go reacquire the exact same thing again in order to pad play time. It needs to be new, or at least reworked to keep me engaged. 2. Takes to long for a good roll. Overall I stopped caring about rolls on weapons, since it takes forever to get the roll I want, and by the time I get it, I will be sunset soon. Friend of mine has been farming for a quickdraw, vorpal range master work CQC shottie for 3 seasons now. If he gets it now, he will only be able to use it for one more season since its been available for a year already. Rolls need ways to be targeted at a reasonable rate, so that way you can use the gear for its full duration. The addition of umbrals and the spoils of conquest are great ways to help fight rng. It would be nice if these systems are expanded to other areas. Also we only get to use weapons for 1 year. I have no issue with the duration, but I do not like how bungie includes the season a gun releases as part of its year shelf life. Its kind of frustrating to see all your gear from Beyond light reach its cap the season before Witch Queen. It would be nice to me if they gave us one more season (5 seasons in total) to use gear. That way, you can have all season to chase the roll you want, and then when the season ends, you have 4 more seasons of life. It also helps people who only play on big releases (shadowkeep, beyond light...) have at least some gear that can be viable in the new expansion right of the bat. That way they do not feel like they have to start from 0 everytime if they do not want too. 3. Not enough variety in gear A lot of the weapons in the loot pool are the same archtype. For example, most of the snipers in the energy slot are rapid fire frames. There are no rapid fire pulses... I could go on. After seeing Joe Blackburn post about more loot in future expansions, that gives me hope, but as for now... there is not a wide variety of loadouts to play with. Maybe returning to the old system of being able to swap elements on legendary heavies and energies might alleviate some of the issues. Hopefully if these issues are fixed relatively soon, sunsetting may work pretty well, but I do not expect to see major reworks at least until Witch Queen. These are just my thoughts.
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1 ReplyEdited by Faith: 2/5/2021 8:12:48 AMSunsetting of weapons might be fine, IF a weapon drop always is valid for one year (or better 5 seasons). If a weapon shall be removed completely, put the drop chance to 0%. Currently it makes no sense to play moon, edz etc. because the loot from there is already sunset or will be in one or two seasons. Most of my loot this season feels to be discarded just because it will be sunsetted soon. This is not funny. But, for me, the worst part is the sunset of armor. To have a freedom in my builds I got 2 armor sets (with different elements) on each character. If I want to keep this, I have to farm 30 shards each year (12 will be received out of the season pass), way too much because I'm more focussing on Raids and helping people instead of grinding strikes etc. So within the next seasons I will completely loose my freedom in creating builds with the different elements which will steal my fun and motivation to play this game for sure. Furthermore, due to transmog plans the sunset of armor makes no sense at all. Instead of creating thousands of armor pieces which no one will use with the normal look, focus more on transmogrifications and farmable stuff there. I don't know anyone who seriously farms specific armor pieces (except the new raid stuff for raid armor). Oh and fix the dungeons please.. nice activities to play, but the loot is just .. meh..
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8 RepliesEdited by damnter: 2/2/2021 6:44:26 PMWhat the new trailer also showed me is more re-issued weapons! Not only the d1 weapons, but also the laviathan raid weapons. Think we'll proberbly re-earn those in the new public event. You know, the real reason for sunsetting, selling us back the same weapons they took away.
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1 ReplyNo more stories, we need game play.
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1 ReplyI don't understand the direction Bungie is taking this game. My desire to build loadouts is gone, I mean why should I? Why should I devote hours upon hours to get a good roll and power up gear when I know in a few short seasons it'll all be obsolete? Beyond Light was a great expansion, but Sunsetting soured a chunk of it. Logging in seeing that most of my builds were in shambles with make power being 1060 for most things. What is the hook of this game anymore? Cause it definitely isn't "Looter Shooter", not with Sunsetting.
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4 RepliesWe lost so much in Beyond light and now we're about to get more stuff sunsetted, I hate it. I can't see Bungie stopping Sunsetting but the way you guys have implemented it by Sunsetting things every season is too drastic of a change from what we had in the past. Sunsetting time needs to be longer not every season. IMO Sunsetting should last atleast 1 year. What happens when we get to 2022? Whatever the final weapons will that be it, only those weapons are left for us to use? And the rest of the loot you're designing now will be trash? Sunsetting is wrong maybe a one time thing so that we all start from fresh but something needs to change.
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Not gonna stop. Anyone who thinks it is is lying to themselves. Get it through your heads. They DO NOT CARE. why?? People continue to play and spend money on the game. The end. Until those things stop...lol it’s not stopping. Playerbase cracks me up. The most a abusive relationship I have ever seen. Gonna cry but continue to spend money at eververse and pour hours into the game. Then wonder why nothing changes. Why? Because the Actions communicate to BUNGIE it’s fine. They can continue to do whatever they want because they are still getting all that money and are showing that people are still playing...so in their eyes...if it ain’t broke...don’t don’t fix it.
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I think Bungies never going to change their mind now. Look at his hard we’ve tried. They’re going to attract some of the most awful people to them if they keep up this charade though... You can keep knocking people down, but the chances are you may end up knocking down a person who might cause things to escalate further... That’s something I’m legit afraid of witnessing in the future...
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If people are still here waiting for this to somehow magically get better good luck.
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Sunset my gear, sunset my business.
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1 ReplyPart of the content for me was trying out all the weapons in the latest sandbox but now that's dead. F
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Stop sun setting it's just plain shite.
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3 RepliesSunsetting is more loss outweighing the gains...
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2 RepliesSunsetting taught me don't waste your time. Your time is not valued so if it takes a modicum of effort don't do it because it will be time wasted. Whatever guns you get you get but for God's sake don't grind for anything. If it entails grinding go play another game.
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I think it shows that people can’t or won’t adapt. I’m still able to enjoy the game with gear available.🤷♀️
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4 RepliesHas he left his wall of text?? Normally he can’t resist posts like this.
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Edited by Necrogen: 2/3/2021 6:23:36 PMI'm good with either or, it's just that Bungie decides to do both but never commits 100%. A bigger conversation I've been in would be more about the identity of the game. It's a FPS looter shooter MMORPG. This game it's a hybrid and never commits 100% to any one aspect. it's unique in the concept where it doesn't have to commit but we the players want them to. If they commit towards the more RPG side, the looter shooter aspect would improve. They can do something similar to guild wars or Diablo or borderlands what have you... My questions would be, Would Destiny lose their identity at the cost of trying to please more people? Would it actually work? Can we reclaim the dust palace from cabal hands? It's lost to us...again.
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17 RepliesGood idea, problematic execution. The game does need to be more generous with loot...and sunsetting has exposed some long-standing problems in the game. But. 1. Your first proposal destroys Destiny 2 as a loot game....and the game doesn't work as anything else. See Vanilla Destiny 2. Its action game components are strong, but not strong enough to drive the long term engagement that both players and Bungie want. 2. Your second proposal is bad addition because of loot-motivated player psychology. These players---in general---are so focused on farming the game of its rewards with the least amount of effort that they'll ruin the game for themselves and others if you let them. IOW, If we did what you'd suggest....they'd just run in and out of lost sectors all day to the point of burnout. But instead of looking at how they've chosen to play as being a problem....they'd all turn around and attack the game for "allowing" them to ruin their own experience. Bungie is doing what you want with Umbral Engrams and with Legendary Lost Sectors, etc.... But the play loop has to be bigger....and involve more of the game. Part of why I'm taking a break from teh game is that the Boss Hunts for this season were too small and too repetitive of a game loop. I burned out on them quickly...and the loot wasn't enough to motivate me to keep playing them.
