I have absolutely no problem with doing a cheese. In fact i have done this current one multiple times. I dont really care how people choose to do an encounter. But at the same time i am also not ignorant enough to say that something is not a cheese when it very clearly is. This strategy takes next to no skill, and before the ridiculous argument comes out about level, level does not equal skill, and even that isnt fully true since you can take through two greatly under levelled people with ease with this strategy, as my group has done before. It does not need to involve a glitch to be considered a cheese. So even though this tactic does not directly involve a glitch (although it does involve taking advantage of an oversight), it is still a cheese.

It's a no true scotsman. Do we now have to worry about how much skill doing X strategy requires in order for it to be viable? How do we quantify that? Why does it matter? If the strategy doesn't directly involve a glitch in the game or a quirk in the AI, then it's a perfectly viable strategy. Cheese is a term used by people who are full of pride.

It is pretty obvious that when a strategy makes it so that every single mechanic of an encounter is skipped that it a not very skill based strategy. Or are you really going to try and argue that using cluster rockets takes anywhere near as much skill as actually running it the proper way? The fact that this strat takes very little other than one warlock with super rift and one person with tractor cannon, and 5 cluster rockets, and that is it, makes it pretty clear that it is not a strat that takes really any skill, not of the tasks require any skill, and neither does just mashing the trigger. And no you dont need to "worry" about anything, unless for what ever reason you really care all that much about someone referring to the strategy you are using as a cheese strat. Just because you may not like the term doesnt change what it means. Also i am pretty sure viable just means that it is something effectively usable, so that has nothing to do with whether or not it is a cheese.

Again, skill is irrelevant. It doesn't matter how much skill something takes because everyone has their own idea of what takes skill or not. [quote]The fact that this strat takes very little other than one warlock with super rift and one person with tractor cannon, and 5 cluster rockets, and that is it, makes it pretty clear that it is not a strat that takes really any skill, not of the tasks require any skill, and neither does just mashing the trigger.[/quote] So why would you [b]not[/b] do this over the normal strat? Do you like being in the raid longer than you have to? Do you not like having to min/max your character and maximize DPS? Do you like having to setup roles and mechanics properly each time someone gets it wrong? If you do, more power to you, and you can do it that way. [quote]Also i am pretty sure viable just means that it is something effectively usable, so that has nothing to do with whether or not it is a cheese.[/quote] So this cheese is perfectly viable, because it gets the job done much easier and much quicker.

I think you have lost the plot a bit here and have failed to actually read what i have written. I said very clearly that i do use this strat, i said i have no problem with people using, but you should call it exactly what it is. My only issue is with people trying to act like it is not a cheese, when it very clearly is. I also clearly stated that it is technically a viable strat (for now), however that has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand, you for what ever reason just threw that in out of the blue. As i said something can be perfectly legitimate but can still be a cheese. The only time people usually have an issue with using such strats or moves is in a PvP game (though some still get all mad in PvE as well for some reason). But just because i have no problem with people using it or using it myself doesnt mean i am going to deny the fact that it is a cheese. Also skill is not irrelevant when looking at whether or not something is considered a cheese since that is basically the entire definition of it. If you are going to ignore the amount of skill needed then you have no place arguing whether or not something is a cheese. And while skill level can vary, you can at least go by the average skill level, and it also doesnt exactly take brains to figure out that mashing the trigger doesnt take skill.

I'm calling it exactly what it is, a strategy. The term cheese has been muddied by players who refuse to try the strategy because they feel it's cheating. I also meant you as in general terms. I would much rather find the most efficient, quickest and easiest way to do something because it would be in our best interest do to so for the sake of improving raids in the future. You can call it a cheese all you'd like but if we're going to be using literal dictionary terms then it is first and foremost a strategy.

If we are using the literal dictionary term (as i already presented to you), is is a cheese strategy. You are the one that claimed people didnt know the definition of what a cheese was, and yet keep showing that neither do you. I have you the definition, and this strategy clearly falls into it, making it a cheese strategy. Its as simple as that.

And the problem is? I'm not incorrect either, you realize that yeah?

When you claimed that it wasnt a cheese because it didnt involve a glitch, yes you were incorrect. It demonstrated that just as you were calling others out for not knowing what a cheese was, you did not know it either. Again i have no problem with using a cheese strat. But call it as it is, dont try and pretend it is some kind of non cheese strat, or that it is the right way or intended way to do the encounter, when it clearly isnt. People want to use a cheese strat but dont want to call it what it is because they have this weird idea that it matters what others think about the methods they choose to use.

I also said it was a strategy, to which I am correct. There is no right or wrong way to play this raid, there's just one way and an easier way. [quote]People want to use a cheese strat but dont want to call it what it is because they have this weird idea that it matters what others think about the methods they choose to use.[/quote] Like how you said it takes no skill to perform it, it doesn't matter, right? Let people play how they want. Cheese or not, whatever works the best will remain as such.