Bruh I will pay $500 right now to have my ban looked at in a court of law. Okay I'm a little broke, can we just have my ban looked at for free in court? I'm livid, I maintain that I wasn't cheating, at all. I would be happy to have it examined under a finer lense. They have nothing, and the "Manual review" is absolute bullshit. Nothing of the sort happened, because I KNOW I wasn't cheating. (Or having an awful connection, or using my mic in an inappropriate way, because it's hard to do that if you aren't using it, or doing anything shady).

[quote]Okay I'm a little broke, can we just have my ban looked at for free in court? I'm livid, I maintain that I wasn't cheating, at all[/quote] Wait, but you admitted in another thread that you were running cheat software for other games. That, by itself, was against Bungie rules. You may not have been using that software to cheat on Destiny, but you had it running and we all were warned not to do that.

Where, exactly, were we "warned"? You keep saying that like it justifies it, it doesn't, but, where were we warned?

[quote]Where, exactly, were we "warned"? You keep saying that like it justifies it, it doesn't, but, where were we warned?[/quote] Are you serious? You need to be warned not to run software used for cheating? Anyway, here it is: https://www.bungie.net/en/Help/Article/11929 [quote][b][u]Player Behavior that can lead to Account Bans or Restrictions[/u][/b] Bungie regards some behavior to be in breach of the license agreement that governs Destiny, and therefore potentially subject to access restrictions or bans. This behavior includes, but is not limited to: Connecting to the Destiny game service with any of the following: Modified game software Modified game assets Modified hardware Modified console firmware [u]Using an external program to modify the operation of the Destiny game software, such as: Trainers, mods, cheats, aimbots, or autofire.[/u] User mode or kernel debuggers Graphics hacks Sending malicious network traffic to Destiny servers or other Destiny players Using an external program or device to automate gameplay or circumvent idle detection. Modification or interruption of Destiny network traffic with intent to disrupt the experience of other players or to gain an advantage in the game. Intentionally deriving gameplay benefit from another user’s behavior in the above categories. Unauthorized access to Destiny software or downloadable content (game piracy). Impersonating a Bungie, Microsoft, Sony, Blizzard, or Activision employee. Online behaviors disruptive to the experiences of others, such as: Hate speech, griefing, or message spamming Habitual unsportsmanlike conduct Habitual quitting or idle behavior in matchmade activities Intentionally deleting another player’s items or characters by logging in with their account credentials Habitually quitting from a Competitive Crucible match will result in a 30-minute Crucible restriction Additionally, Bungie may issue restrictions or bans to accounts that have consistent unstable connections when playing Destiny, as this negatively impacts other players. For steps on how to stabilize your network and connection quality, please follow the Network Troubleshooting Guide. Please note: Bungie reserves the right to permanently ban Destiny accounts or player hardware that have been confirmed as repeat offenders. Activity bans or restrictions may be escalated to device bans after multiple confirmed offenses.[/quote] Just because you "think" your cheat software isn't trying to communicate to Bungie servers doesn't mean it doesn't. Also note, you agreed to the EULA. Maybe go take a read on it. You gave Bungie the right to restrict or ban your account for any reason they want and without telling you why.

Again, you say that because they had the right to, legally, technically, that that somehow justifies it. An external program did not modify the operation of the game software, no trainer, no cheats, no mods, no aimhacks. I tested it on other programs, it doesn't interfere, it doesn't sniff packets, it does nothing of the -blam!-ing sort. It was a process name running. That's it. Never, ever, at any point, was pointed at Destiny 2. This is actually pretty easy to detect, and it would be much better if Bungie could get on the level of "amateur programmer asshole" and learn to do that before stealing hundreds of dollars from people. Also: "Bans and restriction are not applied automatically. Bungie reviews all possible violations before applying a ban or restriction to an account or device." is literally a lie. It's simply not true, or it's some idiot at a desk who just clicks "yes, ban him" on everything. (Or, hey, maybe they made a mistake. We're human, right? OH WAIT THERE'S NO APPEALS SYSTEM GUESS I CAN GO -blam!- MYSELF)

[quote]An external program did not modify the operation of the game software, no trainer, no cheats, no mods, no aimhacks.[/quote] You admitted to running cheating software for other games. Whether you think it affects Destiny or not, it obviously did something to communicate with their servers for it to be detected. [quote]yet here I am, a normal player who wants to cheat at a clicker game (oh, that much mean I'm guilty, right?)[/quote] [quote]Also: "Bans and restriction are not applied automatically. Bungie reviews all possible violations before applying a ban or restriction to an account or device." is literally a lie. It's simply not true, or it's some idiot at a desk who just clicks "yes, ban him" on everything.[/quote] And you can prove your claim how? Show your proof.

They submitted no proof, why should I? Ask bungie to give a tour of their extensive network of ban approvers, watchdogs. It'll be supremely disappointing, I assure you. Yeah, I cheat in other, non-multiplayer games. Sue me. Why do you guys act like that's damning?

[quote]They submitted no proof, why should I?[/quote] Because you are the one claiming they are being untruthful. [quote]Yeah, I cheat in other, non-multiplayer games. Sue me. Why do you guys act like that's damning?[/quote] Because you are willing to cheat in other games, so why should anyone here think you would be different in Destiny 2? It is really hard to plead you did nothing wrong and also admit you use cheat software in other games.

They claimed I cheated. They've cited no proof. None. I don't cheat in multiplayer games, ever, because it effects other people's experience. Also, it's immoral. Single player has no such restriction. Also, you know hex editors do have legitimate uses, yeah? Including but not limited to Cheat Engine. However, your irrelevant aspersions are correct, I cheat like a mofo in single player games. There's lots of reasons to do it, I've done it to make a game harder, alter parameters, to catch up to a lost save file. It kinda ruins it so I tend to not do it before I'm done with playing it legit, but I don't see why that would make me an amoral psychopath who would do that in a multiplayer game. The difference is, one effects people, one doesn't. If there's no actual entities being hurt, I will do whatever I want. If there's people (or animals, but let's be honest, not a concern on the internet), I will consider them in my actions. Did you not use DK mode on goldeneye? Same shit, different generation.

[quote]but I don't see why that would make me an amoral psychopath who would do that in a multiplayer game.[/quote] Did I say that about you? No. Did I even call you a "cheater"? No. You called me a "bootlicker". You called into question my morals. That is why I called out your disrespect. As far as defending Bungie, I have been just as much a critic of things Bungie does too. They have a lot to improve in game and out of game.

Defending draconian policy that doesn't actually improve anything does come off as statist bootlickery to me, but maybe I read you wrong. Keep in mind I'm kinda automatically pissed every time I'm on this forum, may be reading things through a bad lens.

[quote]Defending draconian policy that doesn't actually improve anything does come off as statist bootlickery to me, but maybe I read you wrong. Keep in mind I'm kinda automatically pissed every time I'm on this forum, may be reading things through a bad lens.[/quote] The point is, you lashed out at me, called me insults, then said you wish things to happen to me. I did none of that to you. The one thing I have said you are guilty of doing is not reading the warning to not have software like that running while playing Destiny 2. I have never called you a "cheater". I never wished anything bad on you. NOTHING. That is my point. You had to resort to that and for what?

You supported a driveby ban. That's a bad thing that's happened to me.

[quote]You supported a driveby ban. That's a bad thing that's happened to me.[/quote] I support a hard stance on preventing cheating. So, by what you are saying, since I support the stance on cheating, you had the right to insult me and wish bad things to happen even though I didn't disrespect you or accuse you of cheating? Umm ok.

No, actual cheaters deserve to be punished. If you're gonna get pedantic, "cheaters in multiplayer games". Fundamentally, the only way your position makes any logical sense is if you don't believe me.

[quote]No, actual cheaters deserve to be punished.[/quote] I agree. That doesn't give you the right to act disrespectful.

When someone defends a punishment for a crime you didn't commit it's inherently disrespectful. I don't know how this is confusing.

[quote]When someone defends a punishment for a crime you didn't commit it's inherently disrespectful. I don't know how this is confusing.[/quote] Again, you need to read the definition of "disrespectful". I did NOT personally insult you or personally disrespect you. See the keyword, "personally". Defending a policy to root out cheating is not disrespecting you or anyone else. There is no name calling, no accusations, etc. You did that, not me. I know you are upset, but you had no right to act that way. [quote][b]Disrespectful:[/b] adjective 1. characterized by, having, or showing disrespect; lacking courtesy or esteem: [b]Synonyms:[/b] impolite, [u]rude[/u], impertinent, irreverent.[/quote]

So you believe it's courteous to wish punishment on the innocent? I can't believe I'm having this conversation right now, no wonder you think this was clearly stated in the EULA, jesus.

[quote]So you believe it's courteous to wish punishment on the innocent?[/quote] Where did I say I "wish" punishments on innocent people? Please show me where I said that. [quote]no wonder you think this was clearly stated in the EULA[/quote] https://www.bungie.net/en/View/Bungie/terms [quote][b]TERMINATION/ACCESS RESTRICTION[/b] Bungie reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to terminate your access to any or all Bungie Services and the related services or any portion thereof at any time, without notice.[/quote] Now, if Bungie restricts me or bans me, I will be upset too, but I will not come here and personally insult people who defend the policy. I would only be upset with Bungie.

You wouldn't get mad at someone for defending their awful policy? You're a better man than I. Or at least more passive. I'm not rich, but it's not the money, $120 is meaningless, and despite having a lot invested in it, I don't care really about my battlenet being "imperfect", but it's the... The implication is deeply, deeply insulting, and the fact that there's just no recourse. I even considered a chargeback, which I've never done, but they held my blizzard account hostage over that. I didn't really get on tilt until I found out there's no appeals, no recourse, and by my best estimation, no significant human involvement (or, again, whoever was at that post that day completely abdicated their duty, I'm still maintaining that it's wrong to ban over a program that wasn't targeted at yours, or intended to modify yours, and as best I can tell, didn't modify or send data to bungie). I feel like an old man screaming at a cloud, it's so futile but I'm so unholy pissed off I can't help myself. And, I'd take an amnesty program, no evidence of me cheating, unban me, I'll make it so D2 CAN'T run while cheating programs are running, no intention to cheat, and I have a long history with blizzard and with valve (I know, irrelevant) of not cheating, and I can prove it. I don't think I deserve special exception, I believe the rule is unjust, and things like this will sink Bungie (among other... problems). They actually used to go above and beyond to support customers, then I went a few years without needing it, in the intervening time, they went from "very hands on, very helpful" to "very hands off, absolute brick wall of silence". I will, on the other hand, never buy a bungie product again if this isn't overturned. I know, it likely won't be. I know, losing one customer won't sink a tech monolith, but, they seem to be on the way out. I'd rather it not be this way, though... I grew up with their shit. Anyway, I'm rambling, off to waste my life and days off on the phone with customer support.

[quote]You wouldn't get mad at someone for defending their awful policy?[/quote] Nope. [quote]The implication is deeply, deeply insulting[/quote] Well, insulting from Bungie, not me. I didn't imply anythig. [quote]I didn't really get on tilt until I found out there's no appeals, no recourse, and by my best estimation, no significant human involvement (or, again, whoever was at that post that day completely abdicated their duty, I'm still maintaining that it's wrong to ban over a program that wasn't targeted at yours, or intended to modify yours, and as best I can tell, didn't modify or send data to bungie). I feel like an old man screaming at a cloud, it's so futile but I'm so unholy pissed off I can't help myself.[/quote] And I do understand the frustration. I get frustrated at things too. I just don't go lashing out at people insulting them and wishing bad things on them. [quote]They actually used to go above and beyond to support customers, then I went a few years without needing it, in the intervening time, they went from "very hands on, very helpful" to "very hands off, absolute brick wall of silence".[/quote] They are actually trying to get back to they way they used to be. [quote]I will, on the other hand, never buy a bungie product again if this isn't overturned. I know, it likely won't be. I know, losing one customer won't sink a tech monolith, but, they seem to be on the way out. I'd rather it not be this way, though... I grew up with their shit.[/quote] And that is your choice. You can speak with your wallet. I do the same with other companies. However, again, I don't personally insult other people who did nothing to you themselves. That is my point. You think Bungie owes you an explanation or owes you an overturn of the punishment. You might very well deserve one. I think you owe me an apology for your personal disrespect and insults when I didn't call you anything. I doubt either one of us will get what we think we are owed.

Nah. You came off a little pedantic/defense force-y, my reaction was still uncalled for. Sorry. How are they trying to get back to the way they used to be (serious question). A little more engagement with customers would be welcome, even in cases not like this (the months long patch that was just for ammo amount tuning comes to mind, that's a daily hotfix for most places). And hey, if a Bungie employee reads this, it's a problem. Seriously. Help. And not just me.

[quote]How are they trying to get back to the way they used to be (serious question). A little more engagement with customers would be welcome, even in cases not like this (the months long patch that was just for ammo amount tuning comes to mind, that's a daily hotfix for most places).[/quote] The team has said they are trying to change and listen to their players more. They said that on an article a few months ago when they announced the roadmap of updates.