Great episode. I agree with almost everything you all talked about. SBMM needs to stay in the mix.

Bungie like to make decisions based on assumptions rather than tests. They assume average players will be overrun by better players, they assume we don't really know what we need or want, they assume we don't mind being matched with players 10'000 miles away and I assume that this is bad science! They just need to test higher priority CBMM on a 6v6 playlist such as the new individual entry playlist where teams cannot dominate. But it won't happen. They will continue to use assumptions and numbers and ignore actual player feedback. Assume, never check, it's a good motto for Bungie Devs.

Wall of text incoming, sorry in advance. I just want to try and put the views of people that are upvoting these posts across in as good and calm a way as possible and maybe get a real discussion going. I am a decent enough player, I'm not a god but I am in the small percentage negatively affected by SBMM given that i'm ranked in the top 250 in the world for rumble and have been higher. I just listened to whole SBMM talk on your podcast and no disrespect, but the people you are talking about it with are not the right people to do so, please hear me out. From the gameplay, they are obviously people positively affected by SBMM, have never been negatively affected by it and aren't particularly well informed on the subject. The blowouts that you guys discussed are not due to CBMM being in full swing, they are due to win/loss matchmaking, Bungie have said this is in the game and they want people to have a 50% w/l and a 1.0k/d, this is artificially generated through matching teams so one team is better than the other, placing 1 good person on a team of people that aren't that great, join in progress matches etc RWG says that she doesn't consider these matches good competition and this would happen all the time with CBMM but wouldn't you rather have wins and losses based on your ability rather than the game deciding it's time for you to get a win or a loss. If there was genuine SBMM i'd be all for it, I don't want to "pub stomp noobs", what I'm against is the game deciding that it's time for a loss and spawning me into a rumble game 1600 points down. You used the tower as an example of how people are regionally matchmade, but there is no SBMM for the tower. I personally have seen people that I know are based in Australia in my crucible games, I'm in the UK, it's the opposite side of the planet, that is not even close to regional CBMM. Are you telling me that when I load into a game of rumble and it only manages to find 3 other people that there isn't even 5 other people on my continent playing rumble at the same time? I doubt it somehow. A small example would be that I made an alt account to test out SBMM, with the beginning story weapons, the hand cannon and sniper i went 15-1 and 18-0 in my first 2 games, believe me, SBMM is more heavily weighted than people think. At one point in the podcast, somebody says that they are not primarily a PVP player, well I'm sorry but if you are not primarily PVP players, you having a good time in PVP for the 2 hours a week when you get bored of running strikes should be the least of Bungie's concern. They also mentioned that they when they play with friends it isn't fun for them, this is a big argument against SBMM not for it, if SBMM wasn't a thing then those games would be no different to any other, you wouldn't get stomped on because the other team is all at your friends skill level. Some of my friends go double or triple negative when they play some rumble in my lobbies, (btw they win in their own lobbies), for a game that is supposed to be casual, social and about having fun in your fireteams, this is unacceptable. I think the podcast could've been better if you'd had at least one person on that is negatively affected by SBMM so that you could try to understand where this frustration within a small portion of the community is coming from. You all sound very negative towards streamers but the reality is, they speak for (an admittedly small proportion) of the community that you have never been in contact with. I don't know where the large influx of posts about the subject have come from but I imagine all the up votes are people similar to me, who happened to be browsing the forums, saw that there was some kind of protest going on and joined in because it's something that they feel strongly about. We haven't been mislead by an evil streamer, we simply have a different experience in the crucible to you.

-blam!- it I'm bumping this. Haters gonna hate. Others will realize this is a great medium to provide feedback to Bungie from b.net forum posters and there's a good chance the Community Managers are listening, your millage may vary on what that actually means in regards to actually getting some change done. It may mean next to nothing, but I don't agree that it is nothing. Folks who enjoy this game and play it, but want to make their voices heard to give Bungie feedback, both positive and negative, this is a great way to do so. Send Lost a message if you want to be a part of what very may well be the most accessible way for b.net forum contributors to get your voice heard by the Community Managers. Feel free to downvote haters. Also, feel free to suck my balls.

Why all the hate people? really, I don't even think most of you listen to the podcast. All they did is saying exactly what deej said, and giving their personal take on the matter. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. There is something wrong with players blindly following streamers/YouTubers, doing/saying what they do/say, and not think for yourself guardians. You don't have to agree with everything thats in the podcast buts respect players who tell it how it actually is, not Streamers who bitch about everything and think the game should be made for them.

:( still downvoted. I guess people can't handle opinions

Thanks for another episode. I whole hearted disagree with SBMM for crucible. Leave it in Trials (score card matching) but it shouldn't be in any other mode. My 2 cents. Edit: The "sweet spot" is a ranked playlist with SBMM.

Bump

Sounds like this podcast could use a Blue Mic. Audio is so bad I could not make it past 30 seconds. I would watch the Destiny Community PodCast with Patrick Casey. They have a much better presentation and audio quality.

LOL... I haven't even had the chance to downvote this and it's already at 0 likes.

maybe you should create a "remove SBMM" topic or "buff primaries" topic. looks like deej only reads and "listens" to your stuff.

'Twas good... However, I have to disagree on everyone's input that SBMM should stay. No other game has it really, personally, even though my kd won't prove due to year one playing bad... I'm a very good player in general, averaging 10-20 kills per ToO game with kds in the 3.0 +...but I have to strongly disagree with those who defend SBMM. Take my 5 friends who are not only not very good, but are married and have kids, they get close every time to flawless, but are robbed by people like Grenader Jake (whom I've beat twice now) and those with 2.0 plus kds when they have 0.60 or less. That's a perfect example that its unbalanced matchmaking, instead of only pairing them with their kd, it pairs them with insanely good players. It needs to go.

The down votes are real. Its not like you kicked their puppy

with respect I have to disagree on the sbmm issue. I live in northern england. I match on a regular basis to Australia, the middle east, the far east, every part of mainland europe, america and south america. I play crucible mainly solo in the hopes of trying to find the best connections for me. I am not sure if the fact you guys are from america means a larger population which allows a more stable connection for you. but for me sbmm has me ready to leave destiny. I spent all of last year playing very little pve as I hated the raid. then at christmas when they changed the connections the game I loved has fallen to pieces. I am lucky now if 4 out of 5 are laggy messes. red bars rule every game. in IB in the last week I have had people eat supers, take a truth to the chest and not lose their shields, the worst one was a agg bal range finder and rifle barreled matador twice in to someones chest, 2 melees and 3 burts from a pulse and they didnt die. when I play against groups one of them is always a mandatory red bar and that ninja status carries over to the whole group. it becomes unplayable. I have given constructive feedback and seen countless others do it. I think this weeks IB for me has been shockingly bad. it got to the point where I had to team up with my clan mates as it seemed to somehow move the connection in our favour more often than not. so for two nights IB was good when played as a group but beyond painful when solo. I have 200mb connection. I have about 5-10ms ping. so I know my connection isnt the issue. only when sbmm comes in to any game does my games go to a mess. i dont think there is a streamer/you tuber behind it. just 11 months of frustration finally boiled over.

Part of me would like to see SBMM removed just so folks would see how much worse it could be for the average player.

Well said and thought out. As far as all the negativity, its turning into terrorist negotiations in bad action movies. No real point to it but it continues because the show must go on.

Wow. Sounds like the burnout is real. Glad to hear I'm not alone. Wonder what, if anything, BUNGIE has planned to counter it.

Great job Sols and RWG. Wouldn't you know it: the week I decide to take a break from Destiny is the week you have TKL and Orpheus, two of my favorite players. LOL

Hi I would like to say if you ever played Titan fall 2 their pvp is great. Out of 25 games I incounted one lagging teleporting player and although I could not report him I think their connection is good connection due to the fact they have diecated regional severs unlike destiny p2p severs. So perhaps we should only allow people within 2000 miles to play with each other but that might be to small of pool of players for stuff like too. I usally find I cannot go 5 games without finding a red bar who you can't kill and sometimes it is every other game. I personally think the game should tell you if your connection is bad and tell you how to fix it and even go as far as to say if you don't fix it you maybe banned cuase somepeople do it on purpose they know they have bad connection but can't be brotherd to do anything about it. Now when let's move on fusion rifes are in a great place now one time I was shot 80 foot away and died but the next time I meet him 10 foot away he takes me down to 1 cm of health and I let him have it so you can see with the two new fusion rifes sigan's Vidal and the breaded lord they are way better than the old ones shame we if to grind the forge for one, so far it's sniper rifles 15, fusion rifes 2 in the forge which is a bit angry I just wish we had reforge back. now one thing I hate about Pvp is the rng rewards I always think it should be placement rewards to incourage people to get better at the game perhaps we should go to a point system where 1st place gets 5 points 2nd gets 3 points and third gets 2 points all the rest get one and we can give extra points to most kills, most assists most captures etc and every 20 points you get a engram of your choice. On skill level I agree with redwing and something does need to be done about too matchmaking but I do like pvp matchmaking this skill based is great fun I actually find it fun having games which are so close that you only win by a few points and that when your doing rift is a lot of fun and I do agree fire teams should be matched with fire teams but if we had rengoinal severs which only let people play within 2000 miles of each other maybe it would not be so bad if you want to play and your in a fire team which is not close together when perhaps you should be matched with other fire teams which are the same. I do not follow streamers cause I believe they should not be streaming if they are being paid too cause when they are just bias to there followers and don't always have a personal view so I agree with redwing here and I don't care about streams and don't think bungie should care about them ether, snipers do not need buffing if anything we need a little bit more scope time nerf and a sway when moving nerf. I agree with redwing a bit on the raid but I like most of the raids and this one does need team work but does not require certain type or anything you can be what you want to be and use what you want unlike the other raids which usually requires snipers and some people to play certain subclasses etc. This week's best point has been defying gravity on a hunter using quiver and bones to stay in the air and do jumps which are unbelievable but great fun wish I brother streaming it and great scout rife in video can't wait for the fusion and scout rife iron banner to come up.

So i played some final matches today in hopes of actually getting some armor to help my level But my experience has been MUCH different that at the time of the cast. Today, i played one of the most unbearable matches of my life. The my entire team, except me finshed negative, so its another stomp of course. But the enemy team was all yellow bar and below. I didint check to see if they were in a fire team but they had really good chemistry, so most likely they were. But i was getting shot through walls, killed out of knowhere, my shots were registering late, some not at all. Not sure what kind of match making this is, but that game marked 7 losses in a row, and in just quit and played some battlefield 1. If BBMM (biased based matchmaking) existed, that would be it, because ive never seen such a lopsided match, with all odds against my team, including connection.

Petition to fire Deej

Another good one. Wth aren't more people bumping this?! Imo, some people are defiantly influenced by streamers. This week there has been a lot players going in with fire teams and actually communicating. You can really tell by the way teams play. If they look like they are all over the place... yeah maybe its a bunch of randoms in a team. This was just my playing experience, but teams were neck and neck every match, and there was only lag a few times. Only times I saw a landslide victor was when I got put into matches already started. Again, this has been my experience. I cant speak for anyone else. Other news, Sooo im the only guardian who likes wotm? Hate the doors at the second boss in the heroic but all in all Its my fav raid/six man strike. Never doing the final bosses challenge again tho.