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6/23/2016 5:01:00 PM
36

"It hasn't been changed so it isn't OP" Argument and how it's fundementally flawed.

Alright, I've heard this argument over and over again, from countless people over the past year. The classic "It isn't OP because it hasn't been changed" argument. I'll give you this chance now to figure out why it's flawed before I begin. Done? Still think it's the right mindset? Well let's get down to business then. The idea that something can't be Overpowered because it hasn't been altered is silly. Look at Blade last year. Up until September, it reigned supreme in the Crucible with nothing else even coming close. And it was OP. But, it hadn't been changed since launch? How can this be OP then by your thinking? I mean, it only basically guaranteed you 3-5 kills per activation with a stellar neutral game. And yet, it took a year for Bungie to change anything about it. So, was it OP? By your same logic, it could not have been. And yet, the very same people who are saying Striker now isn't OP are the ones who cried about Blade for a year. Let that sink in for a moment. Now let's continue as to the true reason why this thinking is flawed. If everything else gets nerfed, and another thing keeps all of its original lethality, even if it wasn't OP before, it becomes OP by comparison. Let's take Pulse Rifles for example. They had one major change in November 2014, and that was it for about a year. However, they were overshadowed by the reign of Hand Cannons until September '15. Those Hand Cannons get nerfed, and within a week it's complaints about Pulse Rifles. But, 2.0 had largely glossed over them. What happened to make everyone think they were OP? Simple, the nerf to Hand Cannons, being a counter to Pulse Rifles, made them not have a contender. And, by comparison to the other primaries, they were now OP. We saw this recently with the Mida as some people claimed it to be OP, despite it, until the April Update, never receiving a single change. Why? Because it out-performed most other primaries in the game by a wide enough margin that people took note. We even see this now with the Doctrine of Passing archetype of Auto Rifle. Sure, it's had to nerfs recently, but until then that archetype had been untouched since the original Auto Rifle nerf. And hell, they were considered wholly [u]underpowered[/u] by a significant portion of the community until just around the time Pulse Rifles were nerfed. Let that sink in for a moment. An archetype, considered to be one of the weakest in the game, make a MASSIVE jump to being the number one target of people's complaints, despite very little of it being changed until recently from the original nerf. So no. Just because something has been untouched, does not mean it will be the same balanced ability/gun it was when all the competition gets nerfed. That whole line of thinking is just backwards.

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  • It's called the argument from tradition. It's a common fallacy.

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  • Too long. Didn't read.

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  • It amazes me how many people complained about arc blade in year one (a super that requires you to be close to kill) yet shoulder charge is ok? A super that's used maybe a few times if your good should be nerfed, but a insta kill melee thats used 10+ times shouldnt be? But lets do another comparison, all classes have a one hit melee but, backstab requires a charge and you need to be behind them which isnt easy at all, scorch only one hits in super. Shoulder charge? Just run against a wall and you'll have a one hit melee charged and ready. Not to mention you can regen health on kill. Just use a shotgun, check your radar. Come on if checking your radar or keeping distance was all you needed, warlock flame shield wouldn't have been an issue, shotguns wouldn't have been an issue because all you need to do is keep your distance and it'll all be ok? Titan skating and sliding (apparently that works with shoulder charge) makes it extremely easy to close the distance, and even dodge bullets. And the insane tracking? I've had plenty of moments where i jump away and a running titan magnetized towards and hits me with his shoulder, not his knee as if he jumped towards me first. Is shoulder charge op? Not ground breaking op but it definitely requires some adjustments. Having it cost a melee isnt a bad change, it'll make str focus builds mean something plus if I'm not mistaking there's a melee perk that reduces melee cool downs, plus you can wear the helm that gives double melee and use monte. The damage shouldnt be touched simply because then it'll remove the point of using shoulder charge if enemies can easily survive it. And before anyone says "no one complained about it". There were plenty of threads about it in year one and people said the same argument with shotgunning them, difference with now and then is that shotguns had far more reach than they do now. And not to mention titans were the but end of jokes as the "worse" pvp class in year 1, with self res ramlock, blink shotguns warlock/hunters, blade dancers with arcbolts and quick draw, GG running around.

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    • No. Stop trying to justify nerfs. We've had a ton of nerfs and the game has only become less satisfying because of it. Bad human.

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    • Common sense and simple logic work wonders...good post

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    • PANDA

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    • After reading Mida got nerfed because everyone switched to snipers and the stagger broke their fragile hearts. Nobody complained because nobody sniped. I liked the Last word sniper vs Mida shottie because each could compete at all ranges but it's still there but not as relevant.

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      • Where's the TL;DR

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        • Bump

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        • Edited by ya maybe bro: 6/23/2016 7:48:26 PM
          Lol I stopped at the part where arc blade was a "guaranteed 3 to 5 kills", maybe if you don't run into another super, get team shot, get drained by primary fire from a backpedaling guardian, get caught by a well timed shotgun melee, get one shotted by a sniper, or can't find enemies before your time runs out. Obviously you don't know anything about anything.

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          • Yes because all we ever run across in pvp are titans.... Sooooo OP I rarely run across a warlock or hunter these days...

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            • Cry me a river bro

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            • This guy is indirectly begging for a striker nerf lol.

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            • Sorry but your logic is still flawed. I love titans but having their shoulder charge nerfed all of a sudden is the dumbest thing I've heard of recently. I can't believe how many posts are even made to try to nerf them. Shoulder charge has remained the same since the beginning and now they choose to complain. I've been sniped out of shoulder charges, shotgunned out of them, and I've even fusioned shoulder charges in return. They can be unreliable at times. Sometimes the shoulder charge doesn't connect, even though you clearly heard the sound assuring you it did. Also all supers can counter it. So what's the problem? It's you. Its the type of players that hate being shoulder charge coming out of a corner. Or just being rushed by it in general. Take away shoulder charge and all you have is a basic subclass. As if it wasn't already. Then next thing you know people will be crying about lightning grenades. Hunters have quickdraw/invisibility, warlocks have self-res/life drain, titans have shoulder charge. Deal with it. [spoiler]Titans are titans for a reason.[/spoiler]

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              • I agree that just because something has been left unchanged doesn't mean it is OP. The issue here is that the meta hasn't even had a chance to settle down yet and hunters are appearing on the forums whining about strikers purely because they are salty that they got hit with a nerf. Shoulder charge is a bad ability in the first place and no class getting nerfed makes shoulder charge overpowered because it is easily dealt with through guns and positioning rather than abilities which were the subject of the nerf.

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              • Arc blade was changed before launch before the last class rebalances actually.

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              • [b]b[/b]

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                • Hunter confirmed.

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                • Right, let's just take abilities out of this game and turn it into CoD then. Seems like nobody can handle them anyways.

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                • Partially true. But besides that, what do you want to happen with these "OP" things? Keep nerfing everything that stands out after previous nerfs till everything is useless?

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                  • Wall of text, could have been explained in a sentence. Someone fails at English.

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                    • You're flat out wrong on the high rof auto argument. They got a very large buff in 2.0 and another slight buff with 2.1.

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                    • Why, in a game with various weapon types and the ability to choose between NINE different subclasses are we striving to find "Balance"? What's the point, other than cosmetic, to choosing to use a different class/subclass if everything was balanced? I don't want balance. I want to use a class or subclass that best suits the situation that I'm in. I want the choice. I want the strengths and weaknesses associated with that choice. Maybe we all just stop asking for nerfs and buffs and maybe we just start playing the -blam!-ing game without complaining on the forums every time we get killed?

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                      • It's pretty much a domino effect. Nerf this, that gets good, Nerf that, then something else gets good because it was untouched. It's the natural circle of nerfs. [spoiler]lol[/spoiler]

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                        • Cliff notes: Blah blah blah blah blah

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                        • Are you also complaining about STRIKER???

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