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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by Fraser: 11/14/2016 10:19:46 AM
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Fraser

Skill Based Matchmaking NEEDS to go!

I will do my best to explain as to why Skill Based Matchmaking (SBMM) is of no benefit to the playerbase and is overall negatively effecting players, but first I'd like to clear some misconceptions about why people want SBMM removed: [u]Edit Note Before I Begin:[/u] This post was originally posted a long time ago, several months in fact. With the recent outrage about SBMM I decided to bump it back, especially after seeing the community manager's reply to this. In saying that I have edited the original post a little bit, adding extra points against SBMM. 1. [quote]Ha! You just want SBMM removed because you want to stomp scrubs and make yourself feel good![/quote] Well... Although that is partially correct, it is more along the lines of 'I don't want to sweat every game... Especially in 6v6'. Many players accuse good PvP players of tryharding too much and never using 'fun' guns... But then I must ask you, how am I supposed to have fun using non-meta guns when I'm in a sweaty game where everyone on the other team is using them? See what I mean? There's nothing fun about crucible when it's a sweat-fest and no games are fun. There should be a mix of sweaty games and easy games. That's what made year one crucible fun! 2. Well that's really the only argument against anti-SBMM I can really think of so on to my main points: -[b]SBMM is Unnecessary when the playerbase is low[/b] The destiny playerbase is at a rather low point... (Or at least from what I can tell with how long it takes to find games...) which therefore means most of the players left behind are of higher skill. Due to this SBMM isn't really needed as there are already a lot of good players in the game. -[b]Connection Suffers Due to SBMM[/b] You can't deny it. Since 2.1 came out connection quality in PvP games dropped to an all time low. Games started taking longer to find. Many games joined simply had horrible connections. Due to SBMM, player experience and enjoyment is being ruined as the matchmaking algorithm is not prioritising people with the best ping to you... It is prioritising people with a similar skill set. -[b]Trials has become the least sweaty gamemode[/b] Yeah that's right... Trials, the (intended)[i]pinnacle[/i] of random match made competitiveness is by far the least sweaty gamemode, due to the sole reason that a different matchmaking system exists in trials- based off of card wins, thus making in theory and in experience trials the least sweaty gamemode. -[b]SBMM Does Not Help Bad Players Improve[/b] To get better you need to play against people better than you, simple as that. For good players this means doing organised sweats (scrims) to face strong teams. For poor/new players, this means that a regular matchmaking is required to help them get better. SBMM merely gives them a false sense of satisfaction and makes them feel better about themselves. -[b]SBMM Punishes Returning Players[/b] Many people I've known have come back to destiny, then quickly left again when they realised they couldn't compete. After taking a several month break from destiny, then coming back, your skill level obviously would have declined, yet you still are in the high skill tier bracket. Therefore every game you get destroyed, and although that may sound like what will happen to bad players in a CBMM environment, my next point will debunk that myth. -[b]Skill Distribution, Skill Based Team Distribution[/b] Firstly, the majority of players are, by definition, average. Therefore match ups for the vast majority of players will remain the same. High end players are not that common, and an average player/bad player will not run into them very often, hence why CBMM would rarely change much for the majority of the playerbase, whilst greatly increasing the quality of the game for high skill players wanting to play pubs. Secondly, there is a big misconception that bad players will be 'blown out' by good players. This is simply untrue as skill based team distribution could be implemented, which will balance the teams based on skill so each team has a variety of average, poor, and good players. This creates different engagements during the game, some gunfights will be easier, some harder for everyone, which contrasts string with the current average gunfight of clever dragon vs clever dragon that high end players experience 90% of the time. -[b]There is Little Incentive so that Trying Hard to Win is Unrewarding[/b] [i]Suggested by user CSPARROWOFDOOM below:[/i] In other games with ranked playlists, trying to win and sweating was rewarded, for example ranking up in level faster, or in a more competitive setting (such as Black Ops 2 League Play), making your way into real divisions the player could actually see and understand as well as moving up ladders. In destiny there is no reward difference, whether actual loot drops or things such as ranks, for players in higher skill tiers or payers who excel in individual games. -[b]SBMM Punishes Playing with Friends[/b] Bungie have said it themselves on several occasions. Destiny is a 'social game' made to be played with friends. I can only ask then why is it that I dislike playing pvp with outside of a few people? Oh I know. It's because I feel bad when lesser skilled players have to play against my skill level opponents and frequently struggle to achieve well and it gets boring for them fast. Generally I have to play solo as well as playing with friends, even with just a fireteam of two to three, tends to mess up matchmaking and make games a lot laggier and take longer to find, but that might just be me. [b]TL;DR:[/b] SBMM takes the fun out of destiny, causes connection quality to suffer, makes trials the least competitive game type and prevents improvement of lesser skilled players. The Call of Duty community had an outrage when SBMM was introduced into BO3, we should have done the same. [b]Edit:[/b] Due to trending posts like these, we have forced bungie to take action on the matter and they now have acknowledged the matter. Now Bungie, do the [b]right thing[/b] and abolish SKILL BASED MATCHMAKING ENTIRELY FROM THE GAME!

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  • There is sbmm? I didn't notice

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  • [quote][b]SBMM Does Not Help Bad Players Improve[/b] To get better you need to play against people better than you, simple as that. For good players this means doing organised sweats (scrims) to face strong teams. For poor/new players, this means that a regular matchmaking is required to help them get better. SBMM merely gives them a false sense of satisfaction and makes them feel better about themselves[/quote] Really? Playing against better players makes you a better player but playing sweaty matches doesn't? I might be wrong here but isn't the point of sweaty matches to play against good players in order to be challenged and get better. I personally don't mind playing crucible now. The lag needs to be fixed but being in a match with similarly skilled players forces me to rethink tactics and learn from my mistakes. The very thing your saying SBMM doesn't do. Maybe you should reread your own post.

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    • Bump

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    • Bump

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    • SBMM should have its own separate playlist. Something better suited for League Play.

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    • Does anyone think SBMM sounds like some sort abbreviation for a porn category? Lol

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    • wpuld be nice for long playing people but what about people who just started a character? there is no way of winning against sweaty players

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    • [quote]I will do my best to explain as to why Skill Based Matchmaking (SBMM) is of no benefit to the playerbase and is overall negatively effecting players, but first I'd like to clear some misconceptions about why people want SBMM removed: 1. [quote]Ha! You just want SBMM removed because you want to stomp scrubs and make yourself feel good![/quote] Well... Although that is partially correct, it is more along the lines of 'I don't want to sweat every game... Especially in 6v6'. Many players accuse good PvP players of tryharding too much and never using 'fun' guns... But then I must ask you, how am I supposed to have fun using non-meta guns when I'm in a sweaty game where everyone on the other team is using them? See what I mean? There's nothing fun about crucible when it's a sweat-fest and no games are fun. There should be a mix of sweaty games and easy games. That's what made year one crucible fun! 2. Well that's really the only argument against anti-SBMM I can really think of so on to my main points: -[b]SBMM is Unnecessary when the playerbase is low[/b] The destiny playerbase is at a rather low point... (Or at least from what I can tell with how long it takes to find games...) which therefore means most of the players left behind are of higher skill. Due to this SBMM isn't really needed as there are already a lot of good players in the game. -[b]Connection Suffers Due to SBMM[/b] You can't deny it. Since 2.1 came out connection quality in PvP games dropped to an all time low. Games started taking longer to find. Many games joined simply had horrible connections. Due to SBMM, player experience and enjoyment is being ruined as the matchmaking algorithm is not prioritising people with the best ping to you... It is prioritising people with a similar skill set. -[b]Trials has become the least sweaty gamemode[/b] Yeah that's right... Trials, the (intended)[i]pinnacle[/i] of random match made competitiveness is by far the least sweaty gamemode, due to the sole reason that a different matchmaking system exists in trials- based off of card wins, thus making in theory and in experience trials the least sweaty gamemode. -[b]SBMM Does Not Help Bad Players Improve[/b] To get better you need to play against people better than you, simple as that. For good players this means doing organised sweats (scrims) to face strong teams. For poor/new players, this means that a regular matchmaking is required to help them get better. SBMM merely gives them a false sense of satisfaction and makes them feel better about themselves. [b]TL;DR:[/b] SBMM takes the fun out of destiny, causes connection quality to suffer, makes trials the least competitive game type and prevents improvement of lesser skilled players. The Call of Duty community had an outrage when SBMM was introduced into BO3, we should have done the same. Watch out people, soon LFG posts will be like [quote]Looking for team of 5, must have below 20 true skill and double negative KD. Worst player hosts.[/quote][/quote] This guys just hates competition and is not doing so hot with the current meta or bored so he wants to pick on noobs with crappy weapons to feel better fyi who gives a -blam!- if ppl think you are a try hard just means you're doing something right amd ppl are going to hate regardless this guy needs to stfu and just play or come up with solutions like a year two version of VOG and CRota or more iron banner type modes etc...

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      • Edited by Gregusfeckus: 1/8/2016 2:53:45 AM
        On the subject of lag, I just experienced the laggiest game ever. Couldn't do damage with primary, special or heavy weapons. Couldn't pick up special ammo. Got 1st heavy crate but couldnt do damage with it. Wouldnt allow me to collect second or third heavy crate. Melee did no damage. Arc Blade did nothing. Finished up with eight grenade kills. Only died three times, presumably because the opposition were experiencing similar problems. Game's broken as -blam!-!!!!!!

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      • Honestly don't care about getting matched up with the sweatiest players known to man. However if I am getting matched with players OVERSEAS in order for this to happen..... hence connection suffering a huge performance drop, then yes. I got a huge issue.....

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        • Plus the lag all goes to shit because they moved away from connection based matchmaking

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          • I just don't want to be matched against fireteams of any size especially during iron banner. When I report you for lag I don't want to see you in the very next lobby I join.

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          • Agreed, can't even find a -blam!-ing match nowadays

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          • Yep, Lag is real

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          • I would agree with the OP about a lot of the things affected by SBMM. However, it all takes a back seat to LAG/Latency. I have no problem playing "sweaty" games in the crucible. (I know my kd is around 1. All I'd do for the first months was be a bullet sponge. Hard to raise after those lows. ). The amount of p2p lag/latency in the crucible imho is the determining factor. One can go 2.67 kd one match then .047 the NEXT game due to red bars affecting the other team. It SBMM was = , that much of an kd swing should be hard to muster. Playing games with Spain, Germany, Japan, Hong Kong, and the USA in the same match makes for a Star Trek episode where everyone teleports and you can't kill anyone. Yet they kill you. Lol I do not know if it's SBMM or the base of players have dwindled, but not being able to find 12 people? Come on man. I find that hard to swallow. Thanks for listening, IMHO.

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          • I started a game in control a few days ago. EVERYONE, including me (which rarely ever happens), was red bar.

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            • I didnt read the whole post but i did like where it was going. Oddly enough i just got done posting something similar about people taking their trials loadout into regular crucible making it just stupid.

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            • Bump

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            • Gl getting pvp bounties done when you are always in a lobby with top % players.. This matchmaking change is the single worst decision ive seen a developer do in my whole gaming experience.

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            • Edited by The Fallen Zyzz: 1/8/2016 11:56:36 AM
              I am sick and tired of having to sweat every bloody match. I just want to relax, kick my feet up and screw around in Crucible with some unorthodox weapons. Playing Destiny is more of a chore than ever. [spoiler]Plus SBMM screws with connections hard. Nothing worse than getting into a game where most of the enemy team is impossible to kill.[/spoiler]

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              • Top players sweating it out against each other is great stuff, bet they're crying hard as their kd ratios get slaughtered and they can no longer be bully boys.

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                • Even if you hate this idea, you got to admit, how well worded and logical this post is. -------------------------------------- 10/10

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                  • You think they did this to protect the Christmas noobs?

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                  • It doesn't need to go, it needs to work.

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                    • Ohhhh, so that's why I suck now.

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                    • Signed and bumped

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