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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by Fraser: 11/14/2016 10:19:46 AM
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Fraser

Skill Based Matchmaking NEEDS to go!

I will do my best to explain as to why Skill Based Matchmaking (SBMM) is of no benefit to the playerbase and is overall negatively effecting players, but first I'd like to clear some misconceptions about why people want SBMM removed: [u]Edit Note Before I Begin:[/u] This post was originally posted a long time ago, several months in fact. With the recent outrage about SBMM I decided to bump it back, especially after seeing the community manager's reply to this. In saying that I have edited the original post a little bit, adding extra points against SBMM. 1. [quote]Ha! You just want SBMM removed because you want to stomp scrubs and make yourself feel good![/quote] Well... Although that is partially correct, it is more along the lines of 'I don't want to sweat every game... Especially in 6v6'. Many players accuse good PvP players of tryharding too much and never using 'fun' guns... But then I must ask you, how am I supposed to have fun using non-meta guns when I'm in a sweaty game where everyone on the other team is using them? See what I mean? There's nothing fun about crucible when it's a sweat-fest and no games are fun. There should be a mix of sweaty games and easy games. That's what made year one crucible fun! 2. Well that's really the only argument against anti-SBMM I can really think of so on to my main points: -[b]SBMM is Unnecessary when the playerbase is low[/b] The destiny playerbase is at a rather low point... (Or at least from what I can tell with how long it takes to find games...) which therefore means most of the players left behind are of higher skill. Due to this SBMM isn't really needed as there are already a lot of good players in the game. -[b]Connection Suffers Due to SBMM[/b] You can't deny it. Since 2.1 came out connection quality in PvP games dropped to an all time low. Games started taking longer to find. Many games joined simply had horrible connections. Due to SBMM, player experience and enjoyment is being ruined as the matchmaking algorithm is not prioritising people with the best ping to you... It is prioritising people with a similar skill set. -[b]Trials has become the least sweaty gamemode[/b] Yeah that's right... Trials, the (intended)[i]pinnacle[/i] of random match made competitiveness is by far the least sweaty gamemode, due to the sole reason that a different matchmaking system exists in trials- based off of card wins, thus making in theory and in experience trials the least sweaty gamemode. -[b]SBMM Does Not Help Bad Players Improve[/b] To get better you need to play against people better than you, simple as that. For good players this means doing organised sweats (scrims) to face strong teams. For poor/new players, this means that a regular matchmaking is required to help them get better. SBMM merely gives them a false sense of satisfaction and makes them feel better about themselves. -[b]SBMM Punishes Returning Players[/b] Many people I've known have come back to destiny, then quickly left again when they realised they couldn't compete. After taking a several month break from destiny, then coming back, your skill level obviously would have declined, yet you still are in the high skill tier bracket. Therefore every game you get destroyed, and although that may sound like what will happen to bad players in a CBMM environment, my next point will debunk that myth. -[b]Skill Distribution, Skill Based Team Distribution[/b] Firstly, the majority of players are, by definition, average. Therefore match ups for the vast majority of players will remain the same. High end players are not that common, and an average player/bad player will not run into them very often, hence why CBMM would rarely change much for the majority of the playerbase, whilst greatly increasing the quality of the game for high skill players wanting to play pubs. Secondly, there is a big misconception that bad players will be 'blown out' by good players. This is simply untrue as skill based team distribution could be implemented, which will balance the teams based on skill so each team has a variety of average, poor, and good players. This creates different engagements during the game, some gunfights will be easier, some harder for everyone, which contrasts string with the current average gunfight of clever dragon vs clever dragon that high end players experience 90% of the time. -[b]There is Little Incentive so that Trying Hard to Win is Unrewarding[/b] [i]Suggested by user CSPARROWOFDOOM below:[/i] In other games with ranked playlists, trying to win and sweating was rewarded, for example ranking up in level faster, or in a more competitive setting (such as Black Ops 2 League Play), making your way into real divisions the player could actually see and understand as well as moving up ladders. In destiny there is no reward difference, whether actual loot drops or things such as ranks, for players in higher skill tiers or payers who excel in individual games. -[b]SBMM Punishes Playing with Friends[/b] Bungie have said it themselves on several occasions. Destiny is a 'social game' made to be played with friends. I can only ask then why is it that I dislike playing pvp with outside of a few people? Oh I know. It's because I feel bad when lesser skilled players have to play against my skill level opponents and frequently struggle to achieve well and it gets boring for them fast. Generally I have to play solo as well as playing with friends, even with just a fireteam of two to three, tends to mess up matchmaking and make games a lot laggier and take longer to find, but that might just be me. [b]TL;DR:[/b] SBMM takes the fun out of destiny, causes connection quality to suffer, makes trials the least competitive game type and prevents improvement of lesser skilled players. The Call of Duty community had an outrage when SBMM was introduced into BO3, we should have done the same. [b]Edit:[/b] Due to trending posts like these, we have forced bungie to take action on the matter and they now have acknowledged the matter. Now Bungie, do the [b]right thing[/b] and abolish SKILL BASED MATCHMAKING ENTIRELY FROM THE GAME!

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  • SBMM is a joke designed to level out the playing field after the last Iron banner gave out clever dragons to everybody. They couldn't re-do the grasp of malok fiasco twice or else people would get suspicious. because they gave nearly everyone a GOM they canceled the Iron banner event so everyone woudnt bitch cus everyone had an overpowered gun

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  • Me and my daughter playing control and rift - does SBMM work in this setting!? [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UvJPN6xtzE[/url]

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  • Edited by Fluxed: 11/16/2016 6:02:07 AM
    You realize your entire first section is based on your opinion right? That's not fact. There's no concrete evidence that the game isn't, "fun" with SBMM. That's an opinion. It's crucible, if you're sweating to get kills or play good, then you need a new niche because whatever you're doing obviously isn't working for you. Do you know what PvP is? It's player vs player! I fully expect people of different skill sets to be better than me! In order to get better you have to practice harder and learn to adapt to the new play-styles. Same thing with Trials every week that they've been adding small maps, large maps, no radar/no revives, etc... PvP is all about being able to adapt and reaction time. If you can't take the time to read up on how to counter things or have a better class setup, then you don't deserve to be complaining about SBMM. One of the main valid points about this post is the shitty connection. SBMM is far more balanced than CBMM ever will be. Because in the end, your match wins and loses will be evened out with SBMM. You can't just win a match against noobs over and over and over and over. Eventually you'll level out. If not, I guess you're just really good. Which who cares. If you're good you deserve to be good based in skill, not based on luck with connection.

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  • Here is how I see the issue. If u want cbmm because you want easy games... Get out. This post on the other hand makes sense and I support this. Bumpidy bumpidy

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  • [quote] . -[b]SBMM Does Not Help Bad Players Improve[/b] To get better you need to play against people better than you, simple as that. For good players this means doing organised sweats (scrims) to face strong teams. For poor/new players, this means that a regular matchmaking is required to help them get better. SBMM merely gives them a false sense of satisfaction and makes them feel better about themselves. -[b]SBMM Punishes Returning Players[/b] Many people I've known have come back to destiny, then quickly left again when they realised they couldn't compete. After taking a several month break from destiny, then coming back, your skill level obviously would have declined, yet you still are in the high skill tier bracket. Therefore every game you get destroyed, and although that may sound like what will happen to bad players in a CBMM environment, my next point will debunk that myth. [/quote] You just contradicted yourself. "the best way to get better is to play people better than you...Unless you are a returning player who has to play people better than you...." on top of that aren't you helping your friends get better when they are matched in a party with you? you know ...because they have to play others better than themselves? which by your logic is the ONLY way to get better. hence why video games in general only have the hardest difficulty available right? my kd is shit due to tlw/thorn/Felwinter's party 64 era...you know when it was cbmm? here is what I learned. there was no counter, if you didn't gave tlw, thorn, max range shotty, final round spear you were hosed. no if ands or buts. I tried flanking, cloaking, red death, bunny hopping, blinking, you name it. there was no way I could get better because I didn't have those guns...and when I used tlw the night before it got ruined literally the first time I got it (on my friends xbox lucky sob I do the work and then it drops)]guess what...I went 2.0+ each match I had it. how is that get better or skill? in this match making I learned a ton more like how to retreat...something you couldn't do with the above mentioned era. I learned shotguns can close the gap like no other still. and heck I learned a bit on how to be one. I have become a lot better than what I was due to this.

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    • DPJ is against SBMM too! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xKFRNmCEhY

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    • Edited by Vayde: 11/14/2016 3:57:29 PM
      I completely agree, I shouldn't be punished for being a good player, nobody else should either. This might come off as sounding like a dick, but if you're not as good as me (or the next player that's better than me) that's your problem. I recently played on a not so good buddy's account and it's sad how bad the people are that I play on it compared to my account. My first game on it I had a 45ish kill game of control with a close to 10,000 point score. On my account, I average like 20-25 kills normally, and 35ish on a super good game. And I agree just as much with Trials being the least sweaty game mode, SBMM makes it that way like you mentioned. We've been asking this for a long time. lt's time to listen, Bungie.

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      • So, essentially if we were to describe the main idea of your post, it is to.... [spoiler] Remove SBMM[/spoiler] Deej so good at PR.

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      • This is a fine post, sir.

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        • The playing with friends part is the biggest part.

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        • I have two questions, can I quote this to support certain parts of my arguement when speaking to people on this subject?, if yes, can I get a bump so I don't have to go searching for this post every time I want to see it?

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          • Bump

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            • This is what a post should be Well done

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            • Bump

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            • [quote]I don't want to sweat every game[/quote] Then don't. I find I get a healthy mix of easy opponents and difficult opponents. If you want to relax, then do so, as you mention lower down in your post there's no incentive to win. [quote]SBMM is Unnecessary when the playerbase is low[/quote] DTR has tracked 7.6m players over the last 12 months, not sure if that's in your definition of low [quote]Connection Suffers Due to SBMM[/quote] Connection suffers because Destiny uses a P2P system, and it requires a decent amount of upstream bandwidth available to it non stop, poorly configured home networks play a huge part in this (As evidenced by mine and 5 other of my friends' connection quality) [quote]Trials has become the least sweaty gamemode[/quote] I'm not overly sure how this is an issue, but Trials is pure CBMM, that [i]attempts[/i] to match you with someone on the same wins. [quote]SBMM Does Not Help Bad Players Improve[/quote] This is of course highly debatable, and I agree that you improve by playing against better players, but I will say this, if you tend to do a bit better and win a few more games, your confidence builds and you are more likely to spend more time in the crucible, and thus improve, as its really only practice that makes you better [quote]SBMM Punishes Returning Players[/quote] As a player who spent ~5 months playing a handful of pve games before coming back I will disagree, I think the lack of practice punishes you. [quote]Skill Distribution, Skill Based Team Distribution[/quote] So...SBMM right? [quote]There is Little Incentive so that Trying Hard to Win is Unrewarding[/quote] Right, so what does it matter if you lose? [quote]SBMM Punishes Playing with Friends[/quote] I will agree with you here on the premise of not knowing how the matchmaking engine works in a situation of a widely varied crucible team.

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              • Bump

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              • Edited by Mojmon 15: 11/14/2016 3:21:38 AM
                Good read, its not a wall, so I didn't fall asleep, and unlike everybody else, (who just say 'remove it' with no evidence or opinion) you put in multiple points which made me think. All in all, good job, this has to convince bungie. [spoiler]maybe not, it's bungie.[/spoiler]

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              • Good post. Another big issue with forced SBMM is there's no incentive to sweat every game. League play, or better yet Halo 3s perfection system of ranked and social playlists offer the best of both worlds.

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                • Hope bungo listens but doubt they will. My lack of Rise of Iron proof of purchase is proof alone lol.

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                • So, if games take "long" to find right now, as it tries to evaluate the closest skill, what do you think will happen when it tries to evaluate the best connections? [spoiler]It will still take as long, if not longer.[/spoiler]

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                  • Bump

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                  • Bump

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                  • Edited by H2O Bay: 5/20/2016 3:23:12 PM
                    Yea I agree SBMM sucks and I feel burnt out afterr about 5 min of crucible and I'll go weeks without playing it. And I used to love the crucible. I never needed new content before because the crucible was just fun and it sucks now because of the way that weapons are balanced is actually excellent but it's hard to even enjoy the experience now. Please fix this Bungie.

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                  • Skilled based matchmaking drew the line for me playing destiny, the content drought was already hurting my passion of this game in the beginning of 2016 so I mainly relied on PvP to maintain my joy coming from the game since there was nothing left for me in PvE. As a guardian who mainly played solo, continuously being frustrated at the mode that was meant to maintain my joy for this game really broke the connection i had with destiny. SBMM should be an OPTION.. not forced upon the player...Connection Based matchmaking should be an OPTION.. not forced upon the player.. i dont mind a little lag here and there but i am really sensitive from getting demolished 223049 games in a row by people who play exactly like me... all destiny needs is matchmaking preferences.

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                    • Edited by Oryx's Taken Cucumber: 6/18/2017 9:20:06 AM
                      Lololol

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