Aww don't water down your argument just because people disagree. Your assessment is spot-on! I've been arguing this for many months myself, both here and on the reddit forums. It's just obvious that the numbers and statistics show that: 1. [b]Titans have the worst melee in the game.[/b] It has the shortest range, which makes it just useless in a CQC fight with other classes. Once I started playing Hunter and Warlock I was [b]amazed[/b] by how easy it is to melee players from a meter away or more. Plus the ranged melees of other classes have autoaim so that as long as you are pointed in the general vicinity of the enemy player, the melee will land. Unlike with Titans, where if you're not up in front of a guy's nose and aiming at it, you'll just hit air. This is why I've started "playing smart" and avoiding ALL melee range encounters with my Titan. If I want to enjoy the thrill of the slide+shotty+melee combo, or jump+melee, or any hand-to-hand combat, I load up my Hunter or Warlock. Titans are thematically supposed to be the "punchbro" class and yet are the worst at it. On a small side note, shoulder charge does not count as a melee attack. It is extremely situational and very hard to pull off properly, largely because you have to charge blindly into situations to use it, and end up getting gunned down 9 times out of 10. People who complain about shoulder charge should count the number of times they have been killed by it and then compare it to the number of times they've killed Titans with regular melee. The discrepancy will be huge (hint: it won't be in favour of shoulder charge). People, just stop bringing up the "shoulder charge is OP" excuse to justify why your class is not OP, because it's wrong. 2. [b]Titans have the worst super in the game.[/b] The basic facts here are sadly ignored because the conversation always gets taken over by the "panic button" complainers. Look. FoH can be used as a panic button but that, again, is [b]extremely situational[/b] and if you are on the receiving end, it's arguably the fault of the player for not keeping your distance and gunning them down. The truth is that FoH is a [i]close range[/i] super and requires you to essentially run up to the enemy, giving them pleeeeenty of time to put you down. Unlike GG or Nova Bomb, which can be launched from a distance. GG is essentially PvP on easy mode - just point and kill. Sunsingers are arguably lackluster but their super is valuable not in how many kills you can get in one shot, but just how much of a tank you become, with 3-4 nades to throw that are OHKs if you land them (fusion grenade). And you still can shoot your primary/secondary. You can kill a lot of people while Radiance is active. Arc Blade is also ranged (if you use the right perk) and hard to detect, if you use the invisibility perk. And if you're in close quarters, it's just as much of a panic button. In fact, it's the very definition of a panic button! All you have to do is just mash your attack button in a frantic way to rack up the kills! Lol! For those who say "well Death from Above is ranged so your argument is invalid" again, it's very situational. It only works on some maps and not others, because you can't get the vertical range to be able to land it effectively. And when you do have it, you have to pray that no one will blast you out of the sky before you get the required range. For comparison purposes, I've been Nova Bombed by a Warlock who was [i]underneath a platform[/i] and shot it over the edge (at the platform with heavy ammo outside C on twilight gap), killing a group of us, [b]without us even seeing the Warlock[/b]. That's just one example of how ranged supers are terribly OP compared to the fragile and highly unreliable Titan super. 3. [b]Titans have the worst mobility in the game.[/b] This ties into #1 because you absolutely need mobility to be able to melee effectively. When I play with my Bladedancer, if I am close to an enemy and want them dead, I get them dead. Blink/slide+shotty/melee, no problem, highly reliable and effective. Or even with Gunslinger, the short jump bursts are very good at disorienting enemies. Warlocks also have blink. On the other hand, although Titan jumps are the best for PvE (tremendous range and height) they are the worst in PvP (the topic of discussion) because they're [b]so slow[/b]. You just can't jump anyone, you'll get gunned down immediately. Thus you can't get into melee range effectively. And even if you could, your melee would suck (see point #1 above). Again, as I said, I NEVER get into melee range intentionally with my Titan anymore, unless I get really lucky and see an enemy around the corner, in which case I [i]may[/i] go for a slide+shotty. But not to melee. 4. [b]Titans' "class advantage" of toughness, i.e., armour, is eliminated in PvP.[/b] Armour rating has little to NO effect on PvP. A Warlock or Hunter with the lowest defensive rating takes just as much to kill as the highest spec'ed defensive Titan. The difference is negligible, like needing 1 less Shingen shot out of 20 to kill. Countless analyses have been done on Youtube for this, just search and see for yourselves. The class perks are supposed to be like this: i) Titans are harder to kill (can soak up more bullets) ii) Hunters are faster and more agile (agility) iii) Warlocks have highest recovery. (ii) and (iii) definitely takes effect in Crucible, but not (i). Bungie specifically rules out armour rating differences. Even in Iron Banner, the armour difference is extremely negligible, and the level disparity will have far more of an effect. So basically, Titans are castrated in PvP. Which brings me to: 5. [b]Titans are the most underperforming PvP class in the game, period.[/b] Bungie posted statistics a month or two after game release showing which classes are most represented in the top tier of Crucible players, and Titans were the worst. Most humiliatingly, the statistic for average time between deaths (i.e., survivability) was worst for Titans, and Defenders were dead last (ironically). I am personally exhausted at fighting these same battles over and over. There is just no contest that Titans are horribly broken in PvP, so much so that I've considered giving up on Destiny until they fix this in the sequel. I do play with my Hunter more in PvP now but I don't enjoy the class as much, even though it's far more effective. The question of how to address this imbalance is also a good one. For starters, I would do the following if I was in Bungie's shoes: - To balance the high range of Hunter & Warlock melees, make them weaker, so that they are not OHK (especially Scorch for example). Also, buff Titan melee so that even regular punches are basically OHKs. If the Titan is able to get right up to your nose, he should be rewarded with a kill. - Massively nerf the range of GG and make Nova Bomb harder to aim to offset the difficulty of Titans having to get in close to perform Fist of Havoc. Alternatively, modify Death from Above so that it can be used as a horizontal rocket, so you can shoot into an area to land FoH. That's basically no different from GG or Nova Bomb (still technically worse since with Nova Bomb for example you can arc it so that you don't have to be in the enemy's line of sight for it to land). - [b]Make armour ratings count! Titans should be able to soak up more bullets![/b] Not a ton more so that they can just shrug off an enemy team, of course, but in 1v1 firefight at close or medium range with equal aiming abilities the Titan should win as it has more armour. This will offset the imbalance of other classes being able to close the gap very effectively to get into shotgun & melee range. - [b]Fix Catapult!![/b] This perk is absolutely useless. It is just a regular Titan jump with much less height. There must be a bug in the game since the skill does not do what the description says, which is to have an initial burst of speed. There is none. The skill should be fixed so that you really shoot forward with Catapult, almost like a blink. That way Titans [b]may[/b] have a chance to get into melee range to have a fair CQC fight with other classes. This is just an initial list. I know many, many Warlocks and Hunters will be flat out outraged but they really have no idea how good they have it. I was a Titan player from day 1 and laughed bitter tears once I finally rolled a Hunter and saw how easy it was to dominate with it (using [b]either[/b] subclass) compared to Titans. Keep up the good fight OP! EDIT: To put it as a summary, [b]if you do well as a Titan player it is [i]despite[/i] the inherent class disadvantages.[/b] You can do well if you have good basic FPS shooter skills. But if you do well as a Hunter or Warlock, you definitely have some class advantages on your side that are helping you out in that.

Bullshit shoulder charge and fist of panic

"We're basically only good for all of PvE content" Stopped reading after you disposed your own point

Its not the size, its how you use it

Titan in no way, shape, or form the most underpowered class. You argue range but who cares about range, the warlock has a slow melee and often misses if it's too close my warlock is my main and I lose many melee battles with Titans. You forget the effects that the melee have which are much better than warlock and hunters, you have so much power in your punch and can OHK with your melee, you also have a second melee known as shoulder charge which is really no stopping it if the Titan is range, you can kill them but it's still difficult. FOH is close quarters but it's AOE is enormous and it's hard to avoid, it goes through walls it goes in the air and it also travels forward, plus the perks you can do to make it even more powerful. With my nova bomb I have it pumped to be the biggest explosion and I still get hit markers, you don't just get tapped by a FOH you're just dead. It's so hard to kill FOH I've shot them straight in the face with a shotgun from 1 foot away and they've survived. If you can't avoid a nova bomb then that's on you, it's the easiest super to avoid besides sunslinger. I see people arguing that the statistics show Titans are the worst class but maybe people who use that class just have less true talent and rely on the OP moves of Titans rather than using the other abilities.