Take these three situations:
1. People have all their desired loot.
They play solely because they enjoy the game
2. People want certain loot.
They also play because they enjoy the game but also because they want the elusive item(s)
3. People aren't bothered about loot
They play when they can be bothered and have no compulsion to get loot.
Bungie want to maximise peoples' playing hours, this is what they're heavily KPId on from Activision.
People at 1. will drop to 2. when new DLC drops.
They want to move people from 3. to 2. and keep them there (often why new raid players or casuals will drop coveted exotics/raid gear - this aims to give them the incentive, hoping that they'll enjoy the game more and put in more hours). This is likely the category where players play the most as there's a compulsion to play alongside enjoyment.
The best way to do this; weight the RNG in Bungie's favour to maximise playing hours.
They could make a fixed-weight-RNG system for all players across the game but the cons outweigh the pros. The most optimum way for Bungie to do this is to weight the RNG specific to each players' predicted desired loot.
There are just too many instances of players not getting that [b]drop[/b] they want. Whether it be the Vex, Ghorn, Red Death, Hawkmoon or the final piece of Raid gear.
Think of this; if a gambling house could rig the odds in Blackjack, they would and have - that's why legislation prevents that. They have a monetary gain in doing so. Bungie have the ability to rig the odds on our drops in their favour and their gain is monetary (KPIs by Activision).
They can easily predict what everyone's most desired gear is through this very simple mechanism (NB. Odds provides are for example only. Too many people have been questioning legitimacy of my hypothesis because of that!):
1. BING! player has weight-RNGd an exotic. Let's work out what to drop...
2. what are the %s of weapon types that the player has equipped during gameplay?
RL=60%
AR=10%
HC=10%
Sniper=5%
LMG= 5%
Scout=5%
FR = 2.5%
Shotgun = 2.5%
Okay, now we know what they have equipped most of the time.
3. What exotic weapons don't they have?
Ghorn
Truth
Red Death
Hawkmoon
Mida
4. Out of all the people that have these guns, what is the average % of time that they have them equipped?
Ghorn = 70%
Truth = 5%
Red Death= 15%
Hawkmoon = 20%
Mida = 5%
5. Okay. So we can see that he has RLs equipped most of the time and that Ghorn is the most popular exotic RL for those that have it. Therefore we can make the logical assumption that this is his most desired gun (as he doesn't seem a big HC player as he splits his primary time with ARs and so he probably doesn't want RD or Hawk)
6. Now we know this, we don't want him to get his most desired gun as that'll likely reduce playing-time (as we know from the gambler's theory of 'it's always the next one') so what we'll do is reduce his percentage of getting the Ghorn in this drop and increase that of RD or Hawkmoon.
7. Therefore the % on this drop are:
Ghorn = 1%,
RD = 10%,
Hawkmoon = 10% and
every other exotic at an equal percentage (including those he currently has - this is why when you get a gun, you may see it drop more frequently)
8. SPIN THE WHEEL!!!!
9. Outcome = not Ghorn
*claps arise in Bungie HQ*
"well done guys, he's gonna keep chasing this gun"
They have the capabilities to create this algorithm (which I could knock out in excel in 30 mins if I had all the info - which they do) which assesses any individual player's most desired guns. This then reduces said gun's drop % at that drop.
The frequency at which this would be refreshed is anyone's guess; every time you log on, daily, every Tuesday or with every patch. I really don't know.
Facts:
• Bungie are already tracking all our stats - seen in app and Destiny DB - so therefore they must come from some centralised Database at Bungie.
• Implementing the results in to coding refreshes wouldn't take much processing power.
• Results of doing this is advantageous to them over a pure or even fixed-weighted RNG system
Why on Earth wouldn't they do that?
Yes I'm being skeptical but from a solely business POV this makes perfect sense.
If I'm wrong and it's not set-up like this; Bungie, Deej or whoever is listening - DM me, I'll sort this out fo'ya'll.
Edit:
Apologies for the massive edit. I originally wrote it this morning, I realised it wasn't articulated very well and also missed out key points that I had to answer a fair few times to people. Original post has been quoted somewhere in comments for those that want to search.
Edit:
When replying saying that I'm wrong, can you please tell me [b]why[/b] other than simply stating something like "it's RNG, everything that you're experiencing are the effects of random events".
Yes I'm aware complete randomness can cause this - it can be used to describe a multitude of things.
English
#Destiny
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I can see logic within this argument, but obviously there are exceptions which kind of skew your view; - I have a friend who has hit the 1K club in hours played, still no gally and no Vex myth (50+ completion of VoG raid w/ me personally, goodness knows when he's been with others - I have a friend who has 200 hours in and received the entire Raid suit in one Crota run (only his second run, at that) - And finally, I don't know how the drops work either; what you said looks appropriate if not disheartening, but I have a guy in my clan who keeps a set of blue guns/gear on him at all times; when we get to a CP or close to a boss kill right before we get the rewards he equips all those blues in hopes of tricking RNGenie into thinking he doesn't have anything cool. I don't know if this actually works but he has gotten some sweet loot and received things he had needed (such as new raid boots to become 32, etc.) Seems to work but I don't buy it 100% yet.
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1 ReplyThe fact that I get NOTHING from RNG MOST of the time proves your entire theory wrong. And I play almost every day.
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1 ReplyYou miss three huge points, which undermine your suspicions: (1) what they want most is probably informed by what they don't have; (2) RNG need not mean equal chances at every exotic, for surely you'd agree that exotics in general are less frequently dropped than rares; and (3) xur only sold Ghorny early on, when far fewer people were flush in strange (same w Red death, Hawkmoon was never sold).
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13 days played no gjallahorn, red death, icebreaker, or hawkmoon total bs
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3 RepliesFunny thing is, if I ever get the ice breaker or gjallahorn, I won't play less, I'll play more! I would have more incentive to play. Have you ever considered that someone would get sick of not getting a good drop and not play as much. It works both ways. I think it makes sense to increase the drops, because people would play more.
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I have Ghorn IB vex etc and yet lesser used or liked guns such as the hard light still elude me
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I've pretty much thought this since September. While levelling up to 20 I used ARs or scouts as my primary, snipers or shotguns as my secondary and machine guns as my heavy. My first three legendaries, which all came from engrams or rewards for levelling up factions/cryptarch, were a fusion rifle, a rocket launcher then a hand cannon. Another thing that I found interesting: after a while I had built up a nice arsenal of legendary and exotic weapons. I had several of each type except for pulse rifles, they were either immediately dismantled or put in the vault. I then got pulse rifles from two consecutive faction rewards and another from an engram. I got all three over the course of a day or two. Since then I've kept a couple in my vault and I retrieve them before levelling up a faction and haven't got one since. Probably just coincidences but food for thought.
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Interesting.. But no its just luck. Some people have 4 gjallahorns like I have 4 vex.
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5 RepliesI did VOG maybe 6 times total cause I was new... I got vex 3 times. Your wrong.
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Edited by way455: 1/7/2015 2:23:11 PMAs a conspiracy theorist, I too think the RNG is weighted. The duplicate bug that's prevalent for some players proves it. My main character has the best rate of purple drops and packages. But my third with the least amount of time has has some of my better drops (Hawkmoon in NF for instance). My titan plays the middle of the three and gets hardly anything. One piece of raid armor for VoG and Crota where my main and third have everything. I was in a shotgun rut for a while (I got 12 in just over a week) when it's far and away my least used weapon. Then I bought a scout rifle and promptly got another 6 over the following week. My bud got his 4th ghorn in the NF yesterday. It's definitely not 100% random because if someone had luck like that in a casino, you would be walked out the door.
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Good theory but that makes me the ultimate exeption to that rule, mainly a sniper player and wanted icebreaker, ran my first nightfall and got it straight off. Check my stats not exactly "hardcore".
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You don't understand RNG. Every game that has RNG has weighted drops, if they weren't weighted the chance of getting an exotic would be the same as getting a common and people would have been running around with all the exotics on week one... Just because a drop is weighted doesn't mean it's not randomly generated. For example if I give you three possible outcomes and ask you to pick a number between 1-100 and then make the first possible outcome every number between 1-62, the second possible outcome 63, and the third possible outcome 64-100 without your knowing it does it make your guess any less random? Weighted possibilities do not change random number generation, they just give certain items higher or lower odds.
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1 ReplyI'm not here to argue, because who really knows the truth, buy I would lean more towards this: Each character made has a percentage of getting better gear. To be more clear, my main character that I have had since the beginning, has run nightfall 14 weeks in a row. No exotics. My second character, who's run nightfall for at least 8 weeks now, has gained 3+ exotics. The same has generally applied with the raid for me. My main during raids has gotten: epilogue, VoC, and Corrective Measure, 2 light of abyss. My second: Vex, Fatebringer, predyths, Atheon shotgun (forgot the name), patience and time, black hammer, Crotas Rocket launcher. Those are just a few examples of my personal travels. I feel each character is generated a percentage chance at creation that carries with you through the game. Maybe I'm wrong, but it definitely feels this way to me.
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1 ReplyNo facts.. Wow
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Edited by Sovereign Man: 1/7/2015 2:14:46 PMYou make a valid point, but what I want most, and one of the only things that I'm lacking, is an ice breaker....and I usually have a fusion rifle equipped. Also, I constantly have my Ghorn out, and I get legendary rocket launchers constantly.
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Edited by Scavenger23: 1/7/2015 2:13:53 PMRandom has to be based on something in order to start a calculation. You might be right. but it is also influenced by something that isn't constant and then rolled. Example: kill an enemy - milliseconds since a wipe - perform designated random calculation - blue engram drop.
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2 RepliesYour math is speculative and wrong. There is zero chance of bungie knowing what weapon you want. Everyone wants exotics. Everyone wants Gjallahorn. Everyone wants icebreaker. I've been playing since day one and maybe have had five exotic weapons drop. The rest were bounties or Xur. There is no conspiracy. It's random shitty luck. That's why some dude has had five icebreakers and I have zero.
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I can see this... I pretty exclusively use HC... I got red death and suros within a week or so of each other... I usually use machine guns in the heavy slot and picked up truth off a drop as well as a 331 legendary rocket the same week... Switched to those to level them up for a couple weeks and now have 331 the culling... Need to switch off p&t for a fusion for a while I guess so I can get icebreaker!
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1 ReplyEntertaining theory. But how do you explain getting the same reward from two separate Nightfalls or Chests on the same day?
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I almost wish this was true, since all I want right now is a Hawkmoon, and all I use now are scout rifles.
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I only read the title of your post, yes RnG is not 100% random
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Please explain this to me then. How did I get the exact same rocket launcher a second time in a row for Nightfall. I just don't understand that. I use rocket launchers about as frequently as machine guns.
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1 ReplyBut, but... I don't wanna stop using hand cannons to get Hawkmoon. Unfortunately, I agree with your theory.
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2 Repliesyou are funny i deleted one of my characters and got every piece for that class in 2 raids, same for all my other friends this works for every character you are missing a piece for. its not them, its their stupid drop system.
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1 ReplyIdiot. Hardcore players get more because they play more simple!!!!
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2 RepliesOfcourse it's not all random. When you get three Dragon's breath in one day, you understand. I understood that yesterday.