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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by ---: 1/7/2015 10:45:16 PM
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IMO Destiny has biased RNG

Take these three situations: 1. People have all their desired loot. They play solely because they enjoy the game 2. People want certain loot. They also play because they enjoy the game but also because they want the elusive item(s) 3. People aren't bothered about loot They play when they can be bothered and have no compulsion to get loot. Bungie want to maximise peoples' playing hours, this is what they're heavily KPId on from Activision. People at 1. will drop to 2. when new DLC drops. They want to move people from 3. to 2. and keep them there (often why new raid players or casuals will drop coveted exotics/raid gear - this aims to give them the incentive, hoping that they'll enjoy the game more and put in more hours). This is likely the category where players play the most as there's a compulsion to play alongside enjoyment. The best way to do this; weight the RNG in Bungie's favour to maximise playing hours. They could make a fixed-weight-RNG system for all players across the game but the cons outweigh the pros. The most optimum way for Bungie to do this is to weight the RNG specific to each players' predicted desired loot. There are just too many instances of players not getting that [b]drop[/b] they want. Whether it be the Vex, Ghorn, Red Death, Hawkmoon or the final piece of Raid gear. Think of this; if a gambling house could rig the odds in Blackjack, they would and have - that's why legislation prevents that. They have a monetary gain in doing so. Bungie have the ability to rig the odds on our drops in their favour and their gain is monetary (KPIs by Activision). They can easily predict what everyone's most desired gear is through this very simple mechanism (NB. Odds provides are for example only. Too many people have been questioning legitimacy of my hypothesis because of that!): 1. BING! player has weight-RNGd an exotic. Let's work out what to drop... 2. what are the %s of weapon types that the player has equipped during gameplay? RL=60% AR=10% HC=10% Sniper=5% LMG= 5% Scout=5% FR = 2.5% Shotgun = 2.5% Okay, now we know what they have equipped most of the time. 3. What exotic weapons don't they have? Ghorn Truth Red Death Hawkmoon Mida 4. Out of all the people that have these guns, what is the average % of time that they have them equipped? Ghorn = 70% Truth = 5% Red Death= 15% Hawkmoon = 20% Mida = 5% 5. Okay. So we can see that he has RLs equipped most of the time and that Ghorn is the most popular exotic RL for those that have it. Therefore we can make the logical assumption that this is his most desired gun (as he doesn't seem a big HC player as he splits his primary time with ARs and so he probably doesn't want RD or Hawk) 6. Now we know this, we don't want him to get his most desired gun as that'll likely reduce playing-time (as we know from the gambler's theory of 'it's always the next one') so what we'll do is reduce his percentage of getting the Ghorn in this drop and increase that of RD or Hawkmoon. 7. Therefore the % on this drop are: Ghorn = 1%, RD = 10%, Hawkmoon = 10% and every other exotic at an equal percentage (including those he currently has - this is why when you get a gun, you may see it drop more frequently) 8. SPIN THE WHEEL!!!! 9. Outcome = not Ghorn *claps arise in Bungie HQ* "well done guys, he's gonna keep chasing this gun" They have the capabilities to create this algorithm (which I could knock out in excel in 30 mins if I had all the info - which they do) which assesses any individual player's most desired guns. This then reduces said gun's drop % at that drop. The frequency at which this would be refreshed is anyone's guess; every time you log on, daily, every Tuesday or with every patch. I really don't know. Facts: • Bungie are already tracking all our stats - seen in app and Destiny DB - so therefore they must come from some centralised Database at Bungie. • Implementing the results in to coding refreshes wouldn't take much processing power. • Results of doing this is advantageous to them over a pure or even fixed-weighted RNG system Why on Earth wouldn't they do that? Yes I'm being skeptical but from a solely business POV this makes perfect sense. If I'm wrong and it's not set-up like this; Bungie, Deej or whoever is listening - DM me, I'll sort this out fo'ya'll. Edit: Apologies for the massive edit. I originally wrote it this morning, I realised it wasn't articulated very well and also missed out key points that I had to answer a fair few times to people. Original post has been quoted somewhere in comments for those that want to search. Edit: When replying saying that I'm wrong, can you please tell me [b]why[/b] other than simply stating something like "it's RNG, everything that you're experiencing are the effects of random events". Yes I'm aware complete randomness can cause this - it can be used to describe a multitude of things.
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  • Edited by NinjaGoogle: 1/7/2015 4:47:35 PM
    Sorry bud, the only thing RNG caters to is scrubs. If you suck at destiny you will be showered with exotics.

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  • So i think there is some major flaws with your statistics. First of all, the percentages that people have weapons equipped. You stated that people use RL 60% of the time. This is outstanding, because it is a higher number then any primary on the list. In fact. I have to wonder how so much ammo is available to players to do this. If you just mean weapons that are currently slotted. Then 60% would not be a ridiculous figure, however, machine guns would have to have a value of 40%, as it is the only other option in this slot. Then I look at personal gameplay. I have spent countless hours playing this game, and did not receive the gally until last night. My usual loadout consists of auto rifle or fatebringer, sniper/fusion, and machine gun. Now I have received every exotic of the gun types that I usually use. Recently I switched to use the hunger of crota in place of a machine gun. Now I finally got the gally. The exotics I do not have are, red death (pulse rifle, which I never use), universal remote & 4th horseman (I only ever use shotguns in crucible). And Monte Carlo (the only gun type I mentioned that is common to my gameplay). I know that I am only one data point, and I cannot make any solid conclusions from my observations, but still, it should not be discounted that my drops counter your theory. I think that the more probable scenario is that that the percentages are weighted by the effectiveness of the gun. But when you finally get a gun, your personal probabilities for that gun rise, and all other exotics probabilities diminish. Making that last exotic, extremely hard to obtain. And because of the initial weighted system, the best exotics usually are the last acquired, and become harder to aquire as you get more exotics. That is why people so often experience the "it took me forever to get (gun x) but after my first, I got like 5 more in a week!" Also, it has been a personal observation of mine that the drop rates for an exotic rise significantly the week before Xur offers it.

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    • Lol where did you get your official estimations and percentages? Each player has a diferent playstyle.... Man....this post is nothing but hot air and conjecture

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      • Conspiracy theories LOL I love what people below that have no issues with being lucky with RNG have to say... I agree man, and it's more than possible, they'll do anything for more money, it's activision breathing down their necks! of course they'd do something like this!

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      • RNG is NEVER RNG. It's the biggest lie of all time in gaming.

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      • I think they aren't as random as people think too yeah. I have been using hand cannons since the beginning. My first exotic primary? Hawkmoon. Legendary hand cannons? I have had every single one of them already and some twice. 2 weeks before Xûr sold it i got the Last Word. This game knows what to give you by your play style.

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        • I hate to break it to you, but even if its weighted, it's still RNG. It's not statistically random because of the weights, but it still uses a RNG to make the selection. This is nothing new. Every other MMO or loot based game is exactly the same, just go look up loot tables for bosses in games like WoW. Or drop rates in Diablo.

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          • I hope you didn't waste too much time concocting this theory.

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          • And yet bungie goes and gives me an exotic auto rifle which i love, and drops my friend last word, and they love hand canons. I think you're just shouting conspiracy theory

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            • You can still get duplicates though

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              • You can still get duplicates though

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              • Do you realize the sheer computing power of individually assigning probabilities to millions of players playing constantly? It would be a total waste of resources. We are hardwired to see patterns even when there aren't any. There are weights assigned to certain drops but that doesn't make the determination any less random. It's like saying a certain poker hand isn't random because there is a certain percentage chance of getting dealt 4 aces, and that percentage is lower than getting dealt two K's. Since when have you known a programmer to want to make something MORE complicated?

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                • Of course it's not 100%. I have gotten 3x The Last Word (in 1 week) and I got two Red Death in one HARD RAID. The statistical odds of that in my average play time is astronomical. I have guestimated that, rather than a true RNG, the game generates the contents of the chests, then rolls who gets what when they open it. And there is some sort of tie to each player - why do I get fatebringer at least 2x a week? Rather than a true random drop, the chest/drop is a known quantity upon spawning, not opening. This could explain multiple rolls of the same weapon. I.E. Atheon gives you TWO hunter helmets??!?! So if the roll is bad from the start, two helmets, you're just plain screwed, and you're the only hunter, you're screwed, because it rolled hunter helmets, but only one to give it to? Who knows? It makes more sense than saying, well, the odds of gear are 1/5, the odds of two gear are 1/25 and the odds of two of the same gear becomes some ridiculously large number that happens incredibly often. My theory doesn't explain why I get Vex almost every week from Crota, but it took 6 weeks of 3x hard raids to get a Ice Breaker. That does not make sense. I swear, every game I have two or three team members begging for Vex, and I get it, AGAIN. I've broken down more than I can count. The roll equation, however it works, needs a qualifier. If you get Red Death from the chest after templar, you DON"T get it again at Atheon. My first hard raid was Two Red Death AND Vex. While that was COOL, it was also ridiculously improbable given the odds of getting ONE exotic. 3 exotics in one short raid?!?!?!?! Frustrating because I'd rather balance than this ridiculous system they have, I've been on the otherside of the coin too, 6 consecutive Crota (legit) raids without a weapon. But thats the point right? Leave you wanting something you can never get... So you keep playing... So frustrating.

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                • Lies

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                • Here's my personal example of why you're wrong: I bought icebreaker from XUR and updated it from him. I ALWAYS have it equipped. Icebreaker has been my most consistent exotic drop. Out of 6-7 exotic drops I've received, 5 have been icebreaker.

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                  • Makes sense, it really does seem like the RNG is "trolling" me a lot of the time. 2 nightfalls last night, 5 strange coins each time. Ugh. Waited 3 weeks to upgrade Gjallarhorn, did it, got another one from nightfall an hour later. Same exact thing happened to me with MIDA Multi-Tool. Bought glove engram ... received hunter gloves that were available already from Xur that day.

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                  • You're that special kind of idiot that thinks he's a genius:) Your Fate = RNG The sooner you accept this fact, the less distressing your life will be.

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                    • Wow talk about a conspiracy theory, the coding that would take would be obscene, not all hardcore players have everything, and not all "normal" dont, there is no way possible this is how they do it

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                      • I just posted something kind of like this, it was about nightfall drops being RNG as we all think, if one of the fireteam members drastically underperforms in a nightfall they have a higher chance of getting the exotic drop, so far we are at 10/10.

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                      • 1
                        As skeptical as I am. The two guns that elude me most are a type I have many of and use frequently. Hawkmoon and fatebringer. So if I stop using hand cannon, spread what I have out between characters, and dismantle any I can live without....will I have a better chance at those two guns?

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                        • I'm convinced bungie it's listening. Like, seriously tapping into games and listening. We've had nights where we run VoG just for fun and the game works great. We die because we're messing around, pushing each other off, etc. but the moment we decide to start over and go for flawless raider BOOM!! glitches we've never seen before! (And we've seen a lot). A team mate is trying for Fatebringer and one game every single one of us except him get it. I've had 5 since he said out loud he wanted it. Bungie it's dangling the carrot.

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                        • If you watch Vsauce's video on what is random then you will see that RNG is obviously not at all random much like a dice and/or a coin.

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                        • This is stupid, because not only can Bungie [i]not properly code the regular game istelf, let alone all of this nonsense[/i], but you really think that "one gun" is what the player wants?

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                          • Edited by LetItLooose: 1/7/2015 3:03:57 PM
                            I agree that there is no 'true RNG', and there's most definitely an algorithm behind it. How many variables in that algorithm and to what degree their effects are, is anyones guess. Personally, when I just started Destiny, I ONLY received shotguns exclusively, despite never using them, ever! Didn't use rocket launchers much at all, got 3 Admonishers, first clear on atheon hard, gjallarhorn. Second clear, the vex. Didn't use fusions much as well. Now, because I started using the gjallarhorn more often, I get mixed rocket launcher, machine gun drops. Additionally I believe the algorithm behind the 'Rng' may also be subject to changes, depending on the situation.

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                          • Computers just do not have the ability to be completely random, so rng doesn't really exist.

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                            • I can see logic within this argument, but obviously there are exceptions which kind of skew your view; - I have a friend who has hit the 1K club in hours played, still no gally and no Vex myth (50+ completion of VoG raid w/ me personally, goodness knows when he's been with others - I have a friend who has 200 hours in and received the entire Raid suit in one Crota run (only his second run, at that) - And finally, I don't know how the drops work either; what you said looks appropriate if not disheartening, but I have a guy in my clan who keeps a set of blue guns/gear on him at all times; when we get to a CP or close to a boss kill right before we get the rewards he equips all those blues in hopes of tricking RNGenie into thinking he doesn't have anything cool. I don't know if this actually works but he has gotten some sweet loot and received things he had needed (such as new raid boots to become 32, etc.) Seems to work but I don't buy it 100% yet.

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