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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by ---: 1/7/2015 10:45:16 PM
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IMO Destiny has biased RNG

Take these three situations: 1. People have all their desired loot. They play solely because they enjoy the game 2. People want certain loot. They also play because they enjoy the game but also because they want the elusive item(s) 3. People aren't bothered about loot They play when they can be bothered and have no compulsion to get loot. Bungie want to maximise peoples' playing hours, this is what they're heavily KPId on from Activision. People at 1. will drop to 2. when new DLC drops. They want to move people from 3. to 2. and keep them there (often why new raid players or casuals will drop coveted exotics/raid gear - this aims to give them the incentive, hoping that they'll enjoy the game more and put in more hours). This is likely the category where players play the most as there's a compulsion to play alongside enjoyment. The best way to do this; weight the RNG in Bungie's favour to maximise playing hours. They could make a fixed-weight-RNG system for all players across the game but the cons outweigh the pros. The most optimum way for Bungie to do this is to weight the RNG specific to each players' predicted desired loot. There are just too many instances of players not getting that [b]drop[/b] they want. Whether it be the Vex, Ghorn, Red Death, Hawkmoon or the final piece of Raid gear. Think of this; if a gambling house could rig the odds in Blackjack, they would and have - that's why legislation prevents that. They have a monetary gain in doing so. Bungie have the ability to rig the odds on our drops in their favour and their gain is monetary (KPIs by Activision). They can easily predict what everyone's most desired gear is through this very simple mechanism (NB. Odds provides are for example only. Too many people have been questioning legitimacy of my hypothesis because of that!): 1. BING! player has weight-RNGd an exotic. Let's work out what to drop... 2. what are the %s of weapon types that the player has equipped during gameplay? RL=60% AR=10% HC=10% Sniper=5% LMG= 5% Scout=5% FR = 2.5% Shotgun = 2.5% Okay, now we know what they have equipped most of the time. 3. What exotic weapons don't they have? Ghorn Truth Red Death Hawkmoon Mida 4. Out of all the people that have these guns, what is the average % of time that they have them equipped? Ghorn = 70% Truth = 5% Red Death= 15% Hawkmoon = 20% Mida = 5% 5. Okay. So we can see that he has RLs equipped most of the time and that Ghorn is the most popular exotic RL for those that have it. Therefore we can make the logical assumption that this is his most desired gun (as he doesn't seem a big HC player as he splits his primary time with ARs and so he probably doesn't want RD or Hawk) 6. Now we know this, we don't want him to get his most desired gun as that'll likely reduce playing-time (as we know from the gambler's theory of 'it's always the next one') so what we'll do is reduce his percentage of getting the Ghorn in this drop and increase that of RD or Hawkmoon. 7. Therefore the % on this drop are: Ghorn = 1%, RD = 10%, Hawkmoon = 10% and every other exotic at an equal percentage (including those he currently has - this is why when you get a gun, you may see it drop more frequently) 8. SPIN THE WHEEL!!!! 9. Outcome = not Ghorn *claps arise in Bungie HQ* "well done guys, he's gonna keep chasing this gun" They have the capabilities to create this algorithm (which I could knock out in excel in 30 mins if I had all the info - which they do) which assesses any individual player's most desired guns. This then reduces said gun's drop % at that drop. The frequency at which this would be refreshed is anyone's guess; every time you log on, daily, every Tuesday or with every patch. I really don't know. Facts: • Bungie are already tracking all our stats - seen in app and Destiny DB - so therefore they must come from some centralised Database at Bungie. • Implementing the results in to coding refreshes wouldn't take much processing power. • Results of doing this is advantageous to them over a pure or even fixed-weighted RNG system Why on Earth wouldn't they do that? Yes I'm being skeptical but from a solely business POV this makes perfect sense. If I'm wrong and it's not set-up like this; Bungie, Deej or whoever is listening - DM me, I'll sort this out fo'ya'll. Edit: Apologies for the massive edit. I originally wrote it this morning, I realised it wasn't articulated very well and also missed out key points that I had to answer a fair few times to people. Original post has been quoted somewhere in comments for those that want to search. Edit: When replying saying that I'm wrong, can you please tell me [b]why[/b] other than simply stating something like "it's RNG, everything that you're experiencing are the effects of random events". Yes I'm aware complete randomness can cause this - it can be used to describe a multitude of things.
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  • Ok so explain how I received 4 gjallarhorns over the last week? This over two characters, and I had never received one previously. Three of them were 331, One from ROC strike reward, One from nightfall, one as raid reward, One of them was 300 from VOG chest. I also do not think Destiny is RNG, it is weighted or has a limited loot table that is dependent on time. IE only certain items are available to you in your loot table for X amount of time or based on some other variable. Why do I think this? Because I have noticed that myself, and my clan mates, tend to get the same items over and over while others wont get the item at all, this from Day one. IE: Clan member X has 4 black hammers while clan member Y has 0 black hammers. Its a common trend in our experience with destiny so far.

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    • You know... RNG doesn't exist, even in "real" life... Like the spoon... ^^

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    • Well, I have the following: Gjallahorn Hawkmoon Vex Mythoclast Atheons Epilogue Ice Breaker Pocket Infinity Midas Thunderlord Corrective Measures Dragons Breath Truth The Last Word Patience and Time Red Death (if I'm right my 1st exotic) Suros Regime And..... A lot more But the one that I really want and don't have is the freaking Hard Light. I want it so bad and it doesn't pop up. :(

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      • I have said it once and I will say it yet again... -blam!- RNG. Some say its broke some say it isn't. I haven't gotten an exotic I don't have in months. The last exotic I got was No Land Beyond. That was at launch week (which everyone seemed to get some shit especially from XUR). I do agree with your casual/hardcore player statement in regards to get people hooked back into destiny. I started playing less and got better loot. Once I hit 32 on my last character I won't be playing hardly any until the next DLC. Also, I stopped playing 2 weeks before TDB and that is why I still think I got as many exotics as I did. That was around 8 exotics I believe. I have yet to get anything really great. However, I stopped playing for about 6 days and did the CE raid and actually got a weapon that wasn't a dupe. I think you may be onto something here and several other Forum users have replied saying the same exact thing. Yet, RNG is still RNG and sometimes even hardcore players I have seen get tons of shit. The guy I do shit with plays ONCE a week and every nightfall gets 1 or 2 exotics... I have yet to see him NOT get an exotic..

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      • Edited by 123: 1/7/2015 5:48:08 PM
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        I think it's all RNG. I think people who don't get the drops that are more desirable naturally tend to think otherwise, but there are plenty of players with super great luck that balance out those who can't seem to get what they want. If everyone struggled so hard then I think everyone would catch on and get discouraged. I think it's like a simple gambling machine. The odds of you winning the specific item you want are NOT and never will be in your favor. However, the chance remains the same, and as those around you win said item, you know that you are likely to be next :) That is just my opinion of course and my comparison to gambling is not intended to be taken negatively as it is a common game mechanic that I obviously enjoy (600+ hours). PS: this assumption excludes Crota's End, where I do believe, as Bungie mentioned they would incorporate, has some algorithms in place in our favor to help speed up the process of getting raid gear we haven't already gotten. (Only a few weeks in and I already have the gear to get 3 players to 32 as opposed to 2 and a half months in on VoG for the 30 gear)

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      • Edited by TeKnoVKNG23: 1/7/2015 5:47:59 PM
        What do you consider a hardcore player? Just on my Titan alone I have 7 days and 18 hours of playtime. Not sure how that is in comparison to the norm, but I think of that as above average/beyond casual. 238 Story Missions 144 Strikes 183 Crucible Matches 240 Patrol Runs That's just on one character. I probably have 2 more days of playtime on my Hunter and Warlock. I can count the number of legendary engrams I've had drop from all those activities since launch day on ONE HAND. I've received exactly one exotic from strikes and that was Hard Light last week. My RNG is terrible. Every legendary engram turns into shards. All of my exotics save Dragon's Breath (Crota Chest) and Hard Light I've purchased from Xur and I just get mountains and mountains of blue garbage crap from Strikes and Crucible. I'm level 45 with the Cryptarch and every package has been 2 blues over and over again, save for one that had Arctic Proxy shader. Every Vanguard/Faction package I get is a shard/mote while I know other people get a gun and an armor piece in addition to the shard/mote, etc. I could go on and on about my terrible RNG. So yes...I firmly believe this game is all RNG. However I do think Bungie can tune the rate on your account...it's a tin foil hat theory but I think there is a reason all the big Youtube guys who plug Destiny and feature it on their channels wind up getting 5 copies of every exotic and have all the exotics and raid armor within like 2 weeks of the DLC dropping and their RNG is just ridiculously good. If Bungie has the capability to just mail people engrams ( the legendary engram for coming back to the game emails), and to give someone's account and exotic (Fate of All Fools) that no other account can access leads me to believe they can adjust things for your account in terms of drop rate, etc.

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      • It makes sense that people who play a lot have more than casuals though I agree with that, I have virtually everything that people complain about not having on my main

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      • Edited by Smith5084: 1/7/2015 5:46:41 PM
        Couldn't agree more... It's frustrating. It's not random, and there is no way that anyone can make the argument that it is... I don't have Ghorn... I have been grinding the hell out of strikes, running every weekly and nightfall, and raiding every week since the week this game came out. Still haven't gotten it. My friend got his first one 3 weeks ago after doing the same... Since then, he's had 3 more drop... If I buy an exotic weapon, I will get 2 or 3 more of them in the following weeks every single time...

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      • Good stuff I believe that way before RNG. I have received two ghorns from VoG, guess who never equips rocket launchers, me.

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        • Only thing that is not rng in this game are the golden chests, that is it.

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          • Up to this day I recieved 6 Universal remotes. Yes yoou read it correctly. 6 as of SIX Universal Remotes.

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            • So what about someone like me that has every gun I want?

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            • i love hand cannons and scouts, and rockets, and i have thorn, mida, last word, and ghorn and truth. i dont use machine guns, and i dont have thunderlord, which i do really want but i couldn't care too much, i understand what you're saying but i dont know if it works that way, i dont know

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            • Also, I wonder if you all have noticed by now. The characters compliment each other in relation to drops. A friend of mind got the praxic from a nightfall a while back as a titan, I had a full set for a Hunter as a warlock before I ever thought of making one. Bungie manipulates the rng to encourage the creation of all three characters

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            • I bet you don't play poker. Even when there is a 1% chance to suck out, people still hit that card sometimes. That doesn't mean that the dealer stacked the deck for that specific player to win. I'm not saying that Bungie couldn't stack the deck if they choose to do so in their programming, I just think it's a tad bit paranoid to assume that is the case. Remember one thing, the house wins either way.

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              • What's RNG mean?

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                • You're blind if you think this game is pure rng. I've gotten the red death, gjallahorn, and plan c twice, the last word three times. With the helmet engram I've gotten the knucklehead radar THREE straight times on my warlock once upon a time. There are a number of guns and pieces I don't have and probability says I'm more likely to get a drop I don't have, that's math. It's less likely to get the same thing twice. EVERYONE gets duplicates. It's definitely calculated

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                • Or ya know its random. There's this ridiculous idea that you have to be a "hardcore player" to have alot of exotics when in fact it only takes about 7 hours a week to get all the relevant exotic chances. 6 raids, and 3 nightfalls

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                • Edited by Desso Studios: 1/7/2015 4:53:29 PM
                  There are many ways gaming companies hook players. I'm sure they hire behavioral specialists just to do so. Doctoring loot drops is one of many, I'm sure. Personally I've seen too many instances of the weaker player getting the better drops. Speaking from experience here, I'm usually last place. Doesn't bother me until it harms the team. Ain't no one having more fun than me!

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                • I got Hawkmoon and Ghorn in the same run off Atheon

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                • Edited by rihm: 1/7/2015 4:51:44 PM
                  I rarely use hand cannons, but have always wanted hawkmoon. I use hmgs more than rls. Yet I have no hawkmoon, but I have gally and the truth. Praise RNGesus, and strike down this blasphemous OP.

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                • Oh my gawd I'm so glad I'm not the only person who realizes this is 100% true. Its not JUST the most wanted gun, its ALL exotics, legendaries, basically they are using many layers of algorithms to determine WHEN to give you WHAT item, gear, or weapon. If you truly, truly believe its all random you are seriously a fool and oblivious. When you see guys (like myself) comment regularly on forums that in ten nightfalls Ive had most kills 9 times. EACH< EACH EACH of those games the other guy got an exotic weapon and I got a crappy legendary heavy. The 1 single nf I had less kills I got an exotic piece of hunter armor, or a hunter helmet. This same thing happens in Strikes & crucible. SO they aren't just looking at what they think you want and prolonging play by feeding you drips and drops here and there, they are also feeding big fat chunky exotic deliciousness to players who underperform in many instances. Now many of us play everyday and we are good and we have almost all the exotics, that doesn't disprove these algorithms and ways they are feed-dripping items. Its just if you play long enough yeah you are bound to have everything, but they are definitely looking into what weapons you prefer when feeding rewards. I started using Hand Cannons heavily a month ago and I"m getting steady legendary HC's to drop now. Hopefully my last exotic the icebreaker comes soon.

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                • Basically yes, Bungie is running a casino, so to speak, hoping everyone keeps chasing their carrot on the stick.

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                • How long did it take you to figure that out. Lol fps fo show.

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                • No

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                • Edited by NinjaGoogle: 1/7/2015 4:47:35 PM
                  Sorry bud, the only thing RNG caters to is scrubs. If you suck at destiny you will be showered with exotics.

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