Take these three situations:
1. People have all their desired loot.
They play solely because they enjoy the game
2. People want certain loot.
They also play because they enjoy the game but also because they want the elusive item(s)
3. People aren't bothered about loot
They play when they can be bothered and have no compulsion to get loot.
Bungie want to maximise peoples' playing hours, this is what they're heavily KPId on from Activision.
People at 1. will drop to 2. when new DLC drops.
They want to move people from 3. to 2. and keep them there (often why new raid players or casuals will drop coveted exotics/raid gear - this aims to give them the incentive, hoping that they'll enjoy the game more and put in more hours). This is likely the category where players play the most as there's a compulsion to play alongside enjoyment.
The best way to do this; weight the RNG in Bungie's favour to maximise playing hours.
They could make a fixed-weight-RNG system for all players across the game but the cons outweigh the pros. The most optimum way for Bungie to do this is to weight the RNG specific to each players' predicted desired loot.
There are just too many instances of players not getting that [b]drop[/b] they want. Whether it be the Vex, Ghorn, Red Death, Hawkmoon or the final piece of Raid gear.
Think of this; if a gambling house could rig the odds in Blackjack, they would and have - that's why legislation prevents that. They have a monetary gain in doing so. Bungie have the ability to rig the odds on our drops in their favour and their gain is monetary (KPIs by Activision).
They can easily predict what everyone's most desired gear is through this very simple mechanism (NB. Odds provides are for example only. Too many people have been questioning legitimacy of my hypothesis because of that!):
1. BING! player has weight-RNGd an exotic. Let's work out what to drop...
2. what are the %s of weapon types that the player has equipped during gameplay?
RL=60%
AR=10%
HC=10%
Sniper=5%
LMG= 5%
Scout=5%
FR = 2.5%
Shotgun = 2.5%
Okay, now we know what they have equipped most of the time.
3. What exotic weapons don't they have?
Ghorn
Truth
Red Death
Hawkmoon
Mida
4. Out of all the people that have these guns, what is the average % of time that they have them equipped?
Ghorn = 70%
Truth = 5%
Red Death= 15%
Hawkmoon = 20%
Mida = 5%
5. Okay. So we can see that he has RLs equipped most of the time and that Ghorn is the most popular exotic RL for those that have it. Therefore we can make the logical assumption that this is his most desired gun (as he doesn't seem a big HC player as he splits his primary time with ARs and so he probably doesn't want RD or Hawk)
6. Now we know this, we don't want him to get his most desired gun as that'll likely reduce playing-time (as we know from the gambler's theory of 'it's always the next one') so what we'll do is reduce his percentage of getting the Ghorn in this drop and increase that of RD or Hawkmoon.
7. Therefore the % on this drop are:
Ghorn = 1%,
RD = 10%,
Hawkmoon = 10% and
every other exotic at an equal percentage (including those he currently has - this is why when you get a gun, you may see it drop more frequently)
8. SPIN THE WHEEL!!!!
9. Outcome = not Ghorn
*claps arise in Bungie HQ*
"well done guys, he's gonna keep chasing this gun"
They have the capabilities to create this algorithm (which I could knock out in excel in 30 mins if I had all the info - which they do) which assesses any individual player's most desired guns. This then reduces said gun's drop % at that drop.
The frequency at which this would be refreshed is anyone's guess; every time you log on, daily, every Tuesday or with every patch. I really don't know.
Facts:
• Bungie are already tracking all our stats - seen in app and Destiny DB - so therefore they must come from some centralised Database at Bungie.
• Implementing the results in to coding refreshes wouldn't take much processing power.
• Results of doing this is advantageous to them over a pure or even fixed-weighted RNG system
Why on Earth wouldn't they do that?
Yes I'm being skeptical but from a solely business POV this makes perfect sense.
If I'm wrong and it's not set-up like this; Bungie, Deej or whoever is listening - DM me, I'll sort this out fo'ya'll.
Edit:
Apologies for the massive edit. I originally wrote it this morning, I realised it wasn't articulated very well and also missed out key points that I had to answer a fair few times to people. Original post has been quoted somewhere in comments for those that want to search.
Edit:
When replying saying that I'm wrong, can you please tell me [b]why[/b] other than simply stating something like "it's RNG, everything that you're experiencing are the effects of random events".
Yes I'm aware complete randomness can cause this - it can be used to describe a multitude of things.
English
#Destiny
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4 RepliesEdited by Sportsfreak5022: 1/7/2015 4:48:56 PMThis has been known for a long time, it's called a private loot stream, they mentioned it in several weekly updates. Each person gets a personalized drop rate. Also I assume the same as you weighting the guns the game algorithms against what your play style needs. But also time away from the game is a huge factor in this equation. Give you an example(that actually happened) I played the vault religiously like every week, the first time I ran the vault with y friend he pulls a UR out of a chest, I keep playin the vault 2 weeks later comes back, pulls Monte Carlo from the chest(side note, it took him 3 raids to get the gear to become 30, took me ~15). I also do nightfall with him, like every week. There was a week where he doesn't play much and I play all week, when nightfall comes around, I get 11 asc energies and 5 sc, he gets a Gjallarhorn dumb luck right? Next week same situation he comes back the next week just to play the nightfall, I get 11 shards and 5 sc he gets Monte Carlo 2.0. First week of Crota? Same day as Monte Carlo, he pulls a hard light out of the first chest. This week, his internet had been out for 3 weeks, hasn't been able to play, I get surprise! Ascendant energy on my warlock, he gets the fourth horseman. Point of this story? The game will give players that show increasingly less time in game better items to incentivize them to come back and play.
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4 RepliesEdited by Killawats7: 1/7/2015 8:53:19 PMWhen a crack dealer wants to get his clientele addicted so as to ensure them returning for business, he/she gives out free crack in the morning to give them the feels. Is that what Xur is doing? Essentially giving away Truth and Dragon's Breath so we'll go grind for Gjallahorn? Or Patience & Time so we're hooked and want Ice Breaker? Or garbage like No Land Beyond so we'll go get anything good? Or force us to grind those coins in the event that maybe he might sell something worth buying and since we don't know...we keep grinding. I mean if you want to build a business and a 10 year franchise, make sure they keep playing right? Give them enough to keep them going otherwise they might get bored and go buy Dragon Age or worse....Halo. Destiny is like crack...I keep playing, but I don't know why. Edit: I do know why I keep playing...the game play is awesome!!!! And I think the story is only going to get better...the more money you're willing to spend on it.
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2 RepliesThe three guns i want are hard light, suros, and ice breaker. Judging from over three-four months of playing, i will never get them, nor will they be sold at all.
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What if I use almost exclusively AR and already got 4 Suros and 5 Hardlights?
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3 RepliesBINGO! That's EXACTLY how this game works. I remember when I was doing the Pocket Infinity bounty and needed 10 rare Fusion Rifle dismantles. I had 5 in the vault and 2 legendaries that I dismantled...cool. 7 down...3 to go. Easy enough, right? Well it took me a week to get 3 RARE Fusions. A WEEK! I normally got Fusions ALL THE TIME before this, but since I actually needed them, I didn't get them nearly as often...clearly to keep me playing. RNG is real...but there's totally some weighting in there. Just like when you need 2 more shard and you get nothing but energies...lol. This game def has a troll factor to it. lol. But it keeps you playing...that's for sure.
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3 RepliesEdited by ill nino nl: 1/7/2015 4:43:16 PMSome people really go crazy, over not getting a gun...
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1 ReplyIts plausible. My most wanted weapons are Monte Carlo and Hawkmoon (Auto Rifle, Hand Cannon). Hand Cannons are my most used weapon and Auto Rifles are 2nd most used. I have only ever had 1 Exotic Hand Cannon drop and that was the Last Word on October 30th, and one Exotic Auto Rifle drop, which was the Hardlight on Novemeber 22nd. I have had 32 total Exotic weapons, and only 2 RNG drops of my most used. All while ive gotten 3 Mida Multi Tools, 4 Ice Breakers, 3 Truths, 3 Universal Remotes, 2 Gjallarhorns, 2 Patience and Time etc. Definitely seems plausible to me. Im not gonna use Hand Cannons or Auto Rifles for the next month and see what i get.
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3 RepliesI have studied this post extensively and own many fine leather bound books. I also stayed at a Holiday Inn last night and feel up to challenge. If you think the game is actually tracking all of those stats and calculating a reward based on what you use and or own then you're giving the folks who can't even fix the Vault of Glass bugs far to much credit.
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I agree with all. I those makes sense. Maybe is not 100% correct what you're saying, yet I agree. Same thing goes for Xûr...people think he is RNG...to each their own. In my logical and sensible reason can assure myself that Xûr is not RNG. Bungie has control over all of this stuff...it's their game and their system and can do whatever they please. And yes, they want us to keep on grinding on those desired weapons. Myself included...I'm still grinding for gjallarhorn. Last night 2 of my friends (one guy was his second and 2nd guy his first) got gjallarhorn and they don't even use it as much. The friend that had it doesn't even put interest in gjallarhorn...I have to tell him to upgrade it. He prefers exotic primaries. I'm still grinding for that weapon but it will get old soon enough. Lately I've been feeling less needy and less motivation to play destiny. I have nothing to upgrade or level up stuff for this week, this means I might not play as much. If we had the weapons we desire doesn't mean we wouldn't play...on the contrary we would have more fun playing. Oh well RNG is not what it seems. Again this post makes sense. I agree with you buddy.
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Makes sense that RNG may be weighted since Bungie has shown at every step of the way they have no issue screwing over the players.
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All bullshit
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1 ReplySo... You're saying an algorithm can be used to weight the drops. How is that not rng? Sure, it's not COMPLETELY random. It's weighted, but it's still a matter of chance. So are you a fool too? You know for believing there is a loot table with some weighting algorithm behind it.
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3 RepliesI just got ghallahorn for the first time in the vault of glass.. What's funny is all the other times I beat atheon I was what you can say the MVP in the raid and not got anything.. This time I died at atheon ( my team beat him) and got ghallahorn.. [spoiler]I didn't deserve it[/spoiler]
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To the people saying "Bungie can't do this" "Bungie doesn't have the power" "RNG is totally random" you guys seriously should do a little more research on this forums, Deej confirmed in one of the updates that "If it has been a long time since you got something good, it is more likely for you to get something good dropped" they did that with the new raid, so why not apply that the other way around as well? If you get something good then it will take longer for you to get something good again.
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4 Repliesoh my you're cute. obviously not old enough to vote yet, mmm that butthole of yours must be reallyyyy tight. do want it.
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11 RepliesCan you show me where your math and illogical theory are backed up? I don't see how you can prove any of this. It is a [u]R[/u]andom [u]N[/u]umber [u]G[/u]enerator. This is usually put in place to keep the odds the same, no matter how many times you get it. Do different items have more values than others, probably. My point is you are pulling random numbers and random opinions from your playstyle and have no evidence to back your claim.
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3 RepliesOr they could simply have every reward possible for that mission that you did. In a string and when you complete the mission, they simply have it set up so it selects a random thing out of that string. If you could make that algorithm I'm sure know about programming and this would be the easiest thing to do.
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2 Replies[quote]There are just too many instances of regular players not getting that [b]one drop[/b] they want. [/quote] This sentence is the basis of your argument. When millions of people do something, and a random system is in place, the lower 5% that gets really really screwed and almost never get anything good amounts to tens of thousands of people. They tend to be the vocal minority, and as such, the perception is that: [quote]There are just too many instances of regular players not getting that [b]one drop[/b] they want. [/quote] I do believe they lowered the drop rate for GHorn compared to other exotics; for everyone though. That's just based on assumption and good video game business tactics, and general knowledge of people's desire to acquire loot as a form of fun instead of also simply enjoying the game experience itself. Many people detest the "grind" of crucible or vanguard or whatever, not actually enjoying the game experience itself, until they reach lvl 32 or get GHorn (or reach highest level, in whatever game), only to quit immediately following this accomplishment. To each his own tho.
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4 RepliesSo I am lost... If I have a Red Death but I never use it, does that increase the chance for someone to get that exotic...? I'm confused. Sorry if I sound stupid.
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Very plausible.
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2 RepliesJust from my experience I have to say I don't feel it's weighted. I use mostly Exotic HC primaries. Have for quite awhile now. Using your theory I should have a higher chance of getting a rocket launcher for an exotic drop right? Out of my last 3 exotic weapon drops I've gotten 2 HC's and a UR. Also rockets are my least used weapon type, and I've never had a truth, ghorn, or thunderlord drop. I never really use an exotic heavy. I'm aware that I'm only one person, and your theory could still be correct, and my experience doesn't disprove it in the slightest. Just wanted to weigh in with what I've found.
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12 RepliesEdited by puppyk1sses: 1/7/2015 4:58:29 PMOh dear... What did I just read? It's purely RNG bro. For every exotic weapon you get, there's a 4.3% chance it's the gun you want. That's 1/23. If you were to roll a 23-sided dice, I don't know, 30 times for example... 30 exotic drops that would be... You think every number is gonna hit? God no. 50 rolls? Probably not. So let's say Gjallarhorn is the #7 on your 23-sided dice. How many rolls could you theoretically go without the #7 landing? An absolute f#@ck ton. It's statistics. People come up with some pretty crazy theories to try to explain the unexplainable!
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Yeah, we know,.
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I agree it's not 100% RNG as I've witnessed way too many statistical impossibilties happen for it to be completely random. For example I've never gotten the Corrective Measures, Preadiths timepiece, Found Verdict and Preatorian Foil, but I have received the Vex, VoC, Praedith's Revenge, Fatebringer and Atheon's Epilogue at least 10 times each. Apart from the Universal Remote, I have gotten all exotic weapons at least once now, and I couldn't care less if I ever get the Remote:P However, I don't think the 'RNG' works quite how you described it. For exotics I think all items have a certain 'rarity number' attached to it. The first roll of the dice will be whether you will get a legendary or exotic item. The second roll will be weapon or armor. The 3rd roll will determine the type of weapon or armor (primary, special, heavy or helmet, chest, arms or boots) and the final roll will decide which item you get. If the 3rd roll determined you will get an exotic heavy weapon, there are 5 items you can get, but those items do not have an equal chance of dropping, that's where the rarity comes in to play.
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I've thought this too. There's some things that happen that just don't seem statistically probable unless there is something going on behind the scenes. During the VoG days, my regular team ran the raid every week from the 1st week it released, hard mode starting about 3 weeks later. Of the life of the VoG, I recieved about 9 Atheon Epilogues, 0 VoC, and 0 Fatebringers (speaking of primary weapons specifically). In my fireteam of regulars, one person had identical results with Fatebringer, and one had the same with VoC. I'm not a statistical master, nor am I going to attempt to calculate the odds, but they have to astronomically low. I'm not talking about finding these people in the vast expanse of the internet or forums; these are people who are in my regular group that I play with every week. Our experiences with Crota's End have been no different so far. I've gotten 4 shotguns, 4 Fusions, and 1 Hunger, but I just cannot get the Black Hammer (which I really want). One of our guys has turned so many Black Hammers into energies at this point he's lost count. I'm not going to instantly point the finger at Bungie, but I will definitely stand by my opinion that there's more than just odds at work here. The loot table has waaayyy more too it than 20% Black Hammer, 20% Hunger of Crota, 5% Helmet, etc...
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7 RepliesOk so explain how I received 4 gjallarhorns over the last week? This over two characters, and I had never received one previously. Three of them were 331, One from ROC strike reward, One from nightfall, one as raid reward, One of them was 300 from VOG chest. I also do not think Destiny is RNG, it is weighted or has a limited loot table that is dependent on time. IE only certain items are available to you in your loot table for X amount of time or based on some other variable. Why do I think this? Because I have noticed that myself, and my clan mates, tend to get the same items over and over while others wont get the item at all, this from Day one. IE: Clan member X has 4 black hammers while clan member Y has 0 black hammers. Its a common trend in our experience with destiny so far.