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11/29/2016 10:32:18 AM
157
Is Crucible weapon balancing truly broken?
I come onto the bungie forums now and again to read what the community think needs to be done about Crucible. Many posts complain about the Crucible dominated meta of Clever Dragon and Matador 64, the overpowered subclasses and just mainly people complaining about stuff they don't have or refuse to use... even though they access to it.
So I thought "Hey! Let's actually test this out." I have an all time +1.5KD. I believe that this is a true reflection of my skill due to it also being my first character which I've had since year 1. I threw on a Spare Change.25 with Headseeker, Feeding Frenzy and Injection Mold. I then also equipped a Dreg's Promise. I also thrown on the Sunsinger subclass with solar grenades.
What did I find? I played 5 games with this set up. My lowest KD was 1.29. Not fantastic but seeming though I threw this setup on for fun, I think I did pretty decent. I seen players on my team who were running, what everyone considered meta, and they got KDs below 0.5.
What does this show? That the idea of a meta is absolute rubbish. Granted some weapons are stronger than others but it turns out that a Spare Change.25 beats Clever Dragon on two fronts... time to kill and effective kill distance. However many players would still consider Clever Dragon a better pulse rifle.
What you should be taking away from this? Well players who have better gun skill and movement will, 90% of the time, come out on top. So maybe it's about time players started accepting the fact that they got outplayed rather than usual "that scrub is running the meta, no wonder why they got the kill." It just feels that some players are unnecessarily toxic and should start learning to have fun.
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1 Replyhttps://youtu.be/y6AhshLhHnc: Triple Down No scope
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One of the many truths I've learned from mmos is that the best player with the worst gear will always beat the worst players with the best gear. This made me a huge supporter of loot council, I'd rather the best get better, not the worse get marginally less worse. In short, the best players using the meta will shit on the bad players also using the meta.
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As soon as they attach a scope to thunder strike, everything will be fine.
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Let's just say I hadn't needed a break from this game for 3 years until now. The Crucible is so stale it hurts. I love this game. But God damn, everyone's loadout is so similar.
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Broken more than any other multi-player game I've ever experienced in my life.
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Edited by WulfPak666: 12/1/2016 5:57:37 AMI don't really judge a good game by how good my KD is. Some matches I could get a 2.0kd but I spent the whole time hard camping a spawn. Fun to some, but not to me. Other matches, I could barely break 1.0, but i was running around, dropping nades, being stupid, probably annoying my team, getting a few "wtf.." kills with my guns and just having fun. Crucible can be fun. But not when I play so many matches with red bar, invincible, bullet bending nonsense. Some aspects of PvP are balanced, some need work. Like - handcannons and their rng bullets. - high impact weapons (auto/pulse) - stop nerfing
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To be honest even if it was perfectly balanced someone will still say this needs nerf or buff and cry about something. Overused is like op in this game, but people need to take player skill with that weapon in account to. Even lag effects this to with fake green bars could be throwing some people off when they get killed. Weapon need to be more consistent putting a shotgun to someones head and killing them 4/5 times needs to change, along with getting sniped with a shotgun but when you try to hit someone barely touches them but that is probably connection issues to.
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3 RepliesDon't become a scientist please.
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1 ReplyI mean yeah, 98% of the players use the Matador, so yeah it's balanced. It's shit balance, but it's still balance. [spoiler]SARCASM[/spoiler]
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2 RepliesToo small of a sample size. Not enough variants to dictate if you were playing against similarly skilled players. No graphs or pie charts. Did you learn nothing in science class in high school?
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4 RepliesId have to agree with OP about skill vs weapons.... ever play against a level 20 something guardian with blue or green weapons and shity armor who absolutely wrecks? ...skill. I see a lot less clever dragons these days than immediately following IB. Still lots of Matadors however. Despite getting killed by them, its refreshing to see a few Midas and TLWs. Overall I'd say there's quite a bit of diversity in the primaries being used.
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2 RepliesA lot of people are just sheep and follow the steer wherever it goes. Simple as that. Just look at how many videos and posts there are with the title: "Top 5 weapons for Destiny PvP!", "How to Beat the Raid Fast!", "Best weapons for Endgame PvE!", "Best Weapons Arc/Void/Solar Burn!". They don't want to be bothered to try anything, so they use what someone else said would win.
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4 RepliesDude, you just opened my eyes. One thing I will say is that shotguns need a range nerf. It doesn't have to be a lot they just do
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5 RepliesWhat's your internet speed. That's all that matters. When you make skillfull plays and get killed because of lag or can't do proper damage because the person you are shooting at lives halfway across the universe... Then the game is broken. If I take some damage and dive behind cover i.e. A wall, tree, rock, etc and a person is able to shoot me while I am behind said cover... I'm sorry to tell you but the game is broken. Period end of discussion. Good for you!!!! You connection lets you use any weapon you want and not go absolutely apeshit crazy over all the bullshit that's happening in crucible right now!!!! Once the player base shrinks some more maybe you too will experience what the majority of players are experiencing. This game was great at one time..., I totally got more than my $$ worth. But don't -blam!-ing lick Bungies balls... They -blam!-ing broke it!!!' They ruined this game and anyone who ever came into these forums and complained about anything is partly responsible!!'
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5 RepliesLag is what affects ttk more than anything else. Laggggg
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Well for you thats great. If i used that setup.against my enemies id be -blam!-ed.
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1 ReplyEdited by ClovenTrack620: 11/30/2016 1:39:13 PMi dont refuse to use a certain weapon type i just dont like being forced to play with the gun bungie wants me to. In addition to that i dont think the Clever Dragon represents a problem in pvp theres been worse guns to complain about, but you can always adapt ur displacement skills to get accross the map according to what ur opponents are using, in other words dont try to outgun a pulse rifle with Lord of Wolves or Matador if u know what i mean, its all about situational awareness, In my case i've always used auto rifles and in order to stay competitive i find myself constantly changing the way i approach each opponent, sometimes its all about knowing when and how to close the gap according to their weapon set up not the subclass and sometines is knowing when to keep ur distance and put that gun skill to good use instead of just rushing with a shotgun all the time like the thing is glued to your hands for life.
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This game is based on counters not balance. You already sound uneducated in your title.
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How can PvP be balanced when the highest range I've ever been able to get on a PC+1 shotty is at 32 points, which according to DTR is the max range available. Yet about 6 months ago while watching a ToO stream on PS4, the streamer inspects the enemy team's loadout, he freaked and my jaw dropped seeing this players PC+1. This guy had about 50 points of range on a 62-66 impact PC+1. I can understand the amount of people complaining about being killed by shotty @ ridiculous range (I'm guilty of this too) if many PvP junkies are running around with crazy range shotguns. My Conspiracy Theory - D with rifled barrel and range finder can't kill at the stupid range at I constantly die from.
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2 RepliesSorry but I just don't think you playing five games with an old school load out and having some productivity is indicative of the overall state of Crucible. Everyone using the same exact weapon setups AGAIN is an overall statement of weapon balance for the entire Crucible. I do agree some people complain when they really just got outplayed but the weapon balance is bad right now with entire archetypes of weapons unusable in competitive games (I'm looking at you Medium ROF Pulses...cough..Red Death...cough...).
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Oh yeah like all you see in a rumble game is warlocks with matador and thunderstrike, warlocks with matador and Voidwalker, Titans with jugg, and double skip hunters. That's literally all I've seen.
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Love how everyone whines about matador. It literally does 1 more damage than party crasher with agg ballistics. But matador has sooo much range, sooo OP, soo much damage. But party crasher can have the same range, but 1 less damage.
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5 RepliesBecause meta is also based on ease-of-use. Trespasser (let's be honest it's basically just overall better than dregs promise) can outperform a matador in most cases, but Matador is incredibly easy to use. Spare Change may have a theoretical faster TTK than TCD (unconfirmed?) but in general higher RoF pulses are much more forgiving. It's easier to fire another burst for the kill on something like Grasp than it is for a spare change.
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*Sees title* *sighs* I don't even have to read the post to say yes??
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Edited by Swiftlock: 11/30/2016 2:00:09 AMNah. I disagree with this post. There are indeed a fair number of primary weapon archetypes that need improvements, and our perk system is built in such a way where god roll legendaries [b]outclass exotics[/b] and render anything with lackluster perk rolls as hugely disadvantageous to use for the average player. To say that balancing isn't broken is to say that it's okay for these issues to exist. Let's be real. Destiny's approach to weapon balance has [b]A LOT[/b] of problems.
