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작성자: JayFryGuy2015
4/11/2022 3:11:43 PM
10
“The Winnower” is helping us fight The Witness
I know that the Gardener and the Winnower are metaphors for the Light and Darkness given personalities, but doesn’t it seem strange that we’re being gifted powers of The Darkness like Stasis, Deepsight, and the Relic on Mars to fight The Witness in their implied goal to cause total entropy (Ending everything) in the universe.
In the Unveiling, “The Winnower” likely absolutely despises The Witness.
“Beings who deserve no thought:
those who pedal the tired gotcha that all life hastens entropy. (“You promised them life but deliver only death. Enough. Enough death, enough life.”) They are fatuous little nihilists who pretend to prefer no existence to a flawed one. They bore me.
Those who seek to delay the challenge that all things desiring existence must overcome. (Ending all life at once cancels out this opportunity)
Those who describe false moral equivalence...”
- “The Winnower”, Unveiling: The Cambrian Explosion
With these lines in mind, if the Witness is nearing their goal with no escape for The Traveler, why would they give their greatest adversary powers of The Darkness? Unless it wasn’t The Witness giving us these powers.
“The Winnower” (if it truly is an omnipotent entity like “The Gardener” is) is probably aiding us; giving us Stasis, Deepsight, the Relic on Mars and so on so that the flower game they likes to play with the Gardener never ends; preventing “The Flower Game” of life from ever ending. After all, you can’t have Darkness without Light and even though their fight created the universe, their existences are tied to each other. End the universe, both the Gardener and the Winnower end.
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11 답변Remember shadowkeep? We are not your friend. We are not your enemy. We are your salvation. All of our "doppelganger's" movements mirror the witnesses movements at the end of witchqueen. The witness speaks in a way where we can conclude there are more than one. He might just be the ultimate disciple of the winnower. The winnower speaks in singular fashion. Much like savathun used us to retrieve her past life's memories.. the witness has been using us trying to persuade us to join & become a disciple. Xivu arath & calus are strong candidates for being other disciples. The witness was angry because savathun was running interference with us. Hence rhulk being assigned to keep a watchful eye over the most cunning of the sisters.
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3 답변The Goal of the Flower Game is to Win. The Winnower wants to Prove it's Logic(Sword Logic), so does the Gardener, which wants to Prove all Life Should Exist. This is the back and forth conflict in which the Flower Game was pushed into our Universe. If the Winnower Wins.....the Game Ends. If the Gardener Wins......the Game Ends. When the Game Ends, so Does the Universe. So both the Representatives of the Darkness/Winnower and the Light/Gardener, which would be the Witness and the Traveler, both Need to be Destroyed by Us, to throw the Game into Stale Mate. Both Logics live within us. Proof. In the EDZ, there is a Scannable of a Shard of the Traveler where both Logics, Light and Dark are in Harmony with each other. "You have no Pieces left to Place" - the Witness That Qote is very strong and meaningful as it's like a Game of Chess.....the Witness is declaring Checkmate on the Traveler. Because the Traveler Lost it's Queen, but, it still has a Pawn near the other side, it's just how the Traveler plays it's next move, will determine the outcome. So to your Statement, the only Reason the Winnower would be helping us.....would be so it can Win.
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While I believe you are correct, you got the right answer using the wrong solution. That lore book was give to us from the Witness, and it was the Witness who gave us the darkness powers hoping it would corrupt us and led us to him. Think about the Dark future lore book. All the guardians who learned stasis turned evil and killed the traveler. I suspect the Witness was originally one of the creatures in the black garden, he Witness the power of these fundamental forces and wished to be like them. So after the Gardener left the black garden, it's likely the Witness learned to use the powers of the darkness/winnower by watching it. Once he mastered this power he set out to become a fundamental force. He could achieve this by using the powers of light and dark to create a pocket universe (like the dreaming city) then use his taking powers to take the life and world's he wants and move them to this pocket universe. By doing this he would become a fundamental force just like the light and dark. Also the star horse is probably the physical representation of the darkness.
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3 답변
Guardian,Archon Of LightRIP Destiny 9-14-2014 to 2-18-2026 - 오래됨
Interesting but wrong, The Witness is giving us these powers, it does not see us has an adversary, infact in Witch Queen we were the Witnesses only hope of stopping the Traveler from escaping, Megamind gave us the deepsight for that purpose You have to realize Bungie no longer has a grand plan , they are making this stuff up has they go along, when the unveiling lore was written, the witness didn't exist, (in Season Of The lost he was just called "The Entity")but they felt the darkness needed a face, it was actually the witness we talked to at the end of shadowkeep , also somewhere between splicer and lost Bungie decided the Taken wasn't a Hive creation but a tool of the darkness, also lumped the Scorn in because why not, even though in Forsaken they answered to Uldren and Fikrul only , now suddenly there are billions of them serving the witness I think Bungie has lost the plot, and are overthinking themselves, trying to be clever they are introducing moral delimmas into the story at the cost of continuity, for 7 years we served the Traveler and it's will, now suddenly the Traveler is stupid and doesn't know what's best for itself, and we are helping the darkness while simultaneously trying to stop it essentially becoming double agents, who will go along with anything, but I am getting off-topic The Witness is Bungies evolution of The Winnower, The Unveling lore is directed at the Gardner alone, it doesn't see us has a threat but a potential weapon , but first it has to discredit the Traveler at all costs in our minds , and both the darkness and light are trying to win the flower game -
4 답변My thought is the light can't live without the dark or vice versa. The darkness knows it can't win so it is allowing us to conquer and kill it knowing the light will fail as well.
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작성자: MC 077 Lasombra 4/12/2022 5:39:02 PMThe Gardner and Winnower aren’t metaphors for Light and Dark. They literally predate Dark and Light. They are entities that are responsible for creation. You have a flawed misunderstanding here and it messed with the rest of your idea. The Winnower wants to beat the Gardner and win the Wager. Killing life doesn’t end the universe. Just makes it empty. Paracausal power isn’t going anywhere. The Ulan-Tan theory of Symmetry isn’t a hard rule, it’s an outcome. Bungie changed it up in Unveiling, the outcome will likely be our destroying both. However, it is possible for the Winnower to be helping us against the Witness. It’d be a way to steal the champion of his rival while replacing an obviously weaker minion for a better one. A pretty savvy move.
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5 답변
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7 답변I find it interesting that we do not encounter a Winnower statue on Rhulk’s Pyramid. It makes me believe that their are pyramids with their own agendas as you say.
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6 답변I have a theory that every single Pyramid ship was formerly a Darkness Traveler that had been captured, hollowed out, modified, and repurposed by the Witness and their Disciples.
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작성자: ChronoRabbitN7 4/11/2022 6:34:25 PMSort of. Gods are just bored. What kind of God would they be if they just interfered with everything they didn't like? But they do have their rules, and they are absolute. They grant their gift willingly by their choice, one requiring permission from the wielder, the other requiring permission from the granter and they do have the power to take it away but don't unless a rule is broken. They let the children fight amongst themselves in order to let them grow. The Witness included, for it is a fraud only posing as a God. Savathûn was the only one who understood the meaning of life. To sacrifice everything as a "God" to experience a somewhat normal life. The yearning feeling she felt when watching Crow & the Guardian around the campfire. But the show must go on, and someone had to take the Witch Queen's place. The First of the Lucent, her most trusted Witch remade in the image of the Witch Queen herself. Gods are neither Good or Evil, those are subjective terms mortals place upon ideals they identify themselves with as the correct path for one's rightouness in another's perspective can be seen as the evil. ... If we are a simulation playing a simulated game of ourselves and you couldn't tell the difference, would it matter? What kind of God would I be if I just gave you the anwsers to life's meaning when the purpose of me is to let you make your own mistakes? Would I even exist then, if I don't intervene? If I did, wouldn't that be the end of your freewill? Why would you then ask for guidance then if that is the opposite of your intent? The spaces between your words. You ask to be free, but when you wish for it, you seal yourself away. If I didn't exist would it matter? What about if I chose to live like you because fate was boring? What if I wanted to experience all the flaws and inconveniences of humanity for myself including experiencing death.. Would I Matter then?
