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Modificato da DocSmurf: 2/25/2013 9:18:21 PM
19

Debunking arguments against weed mentioned in the flood

TL:DR Most of the anti-Cannabis arguments used by the flood have been debunked by further research as recently as 2012. While the arguments they are using are from 2009-2010 at best. To put it simply Cannabis has far less negatives, if really any, compared to Alcohol and cigarettes, yet it is still illegal regardless of the fact that almost every main argument against it has been recently disproved. [quote] Cannabis has about 118 carcinogens when smoked, nicotine cigarettes have 70 carcinogens when smoked. [/quote] The pharmacological effects of tobacco and cannabis smoke differ in many ways, mainly because tobacco smoke contains nicotine while cannabis smoke contains tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). The cancer-promoting effects of smoke are increased by nicotine, while they are reduced by THC. Tobacco and cannabis smoke contain the same carcinogenic compounds -- and depending on which part of the plant is smoked, cannabis smoke can contain more of them -- but, whereas nicotine activates these carcinogenic compounds, THC has been shown to inhibit them in mice cells. THC is very likely to have protective effects against the carcinogens present in smoke in humans too, but cannabis smoke remains nonetheless carcinogenic. While nicotine and THC can act on related cellular pathways, they bind to different receptors to activate these pathways. The cells of lungs and the respiratory passages are lined with nicotine receptors, but do not appear to carry THC receptors. This explains why cannabis smoking has not been associated with lung cancer, a main cause of death from cigarette smoking. [quote] A study of 1000-2000+ people in the National British Lung and Cancer foundation found that 9 percent of people who smoked 1-2 cannabis joints succumbed to lung cancer whereas 8 percent of people who smoked 20-30 tobacco cigarettes succumbed to lung cancer. [/quote] http://www.clear-uk.org/british-lung-foundation-fails-to-back-up-its-cannabis-and-lung-cancer-scare/ It was launched with a massive PR campaign with Dame Helena Shovelton, the chief executive, claiming that smoking cannabis was “20 times” more likely to cause cancer than smoking cigarettes. Very swiftly the report was widely.condemned. Professor David Nutt accused the BLF of scaremongering and countless well-researched articles were published exposing the monstrous deception that Dame Helena and her team were trying to achieve. [quote] THC mimics a natural neurotransmitter found in the human brain known as cannabanoids, meaning it has direct access to wreak havoc on various networks of neurons in the brain. Due to THC being a foreign substance and yet being able to bind to cannabanoid receptors in the brain, it can induce foreign effects on the brain that evolution did not want our brain to experience. An example of this is when THC binds to cannabanoid receptors, it induces a foreign biochemical response that decreases the amount of protein kinase A, which has been linked to increased inhibition among neurons, meaning less synaptic transmission in important areas like gray matter (one of the main parts of the brain that has been atrributed to intellectual capabalities). Since weed inhibits neurons in these regions, it creates a dampening effect, which suppresses neural activity, even showing emperically observed decrease in intellectual capabilities of particapants in published studies. [/quote] learning and memory impairments of heavy marijuana users typically vanish within 28 days of “smoking cessation.” (The slight impairments still existed, however, one week after smoking.) While several days might sound like a long hippocampal hangover, heavy alcohol users typically experience deficits that persist for several months, if not years. In other words, heavy marijuana use appears to be a lot less damaging than alcoholism. Taken together, these studies demonstrate that popular stereotypes of marijuana users are unfair and untrue. While it’s definitely not a good idea to perform a cognitively demanding task (such as driving!) while stoned, smoking a joint probably also won’t lead to any measurable long-term deficits. The Dude, in other words, wasn’t dumb because he inhaled. He was dumb because he was The Dude. (All those White Russians probably didn’t help, either.) Furthermore, there’s some intriguing evidence that marijuana can actually improve performance on some mental tests. A recent paper by scientists at University College, London looked at a phenomenon called semantic priming. This occurs when the activation of one word allows us to react more quickly to related words. For instance, the word “dog” might lead to decreased reaction times for “cat,” “pet” and “Lassie,” but won’t alter how quickly we react to “chair.” [quote] Because THC naturally mimics cannabanoids, the brain actually responds by releasing burts of dopamine, because the brain likes foreign substances that produce a "new pattern" of neural activity (or less activity in this case). Smoke too much constantly, enough dopamine (which is a very powerful neuromodulator that creates new neural networks or modifies pre existing ones), that new neural networks that respond to the cannabis, and when they don't get their fix of cannabis, they create havoc (this is known as an addiction). A few years ago, people didn't believe cannabis wans't a powerful enough drug to create this phenomena, but with new research proceeding, evidence suggests otherwise. [/quote] This one i can easily handle on my own. The addiction to which you refer is easily overcome by anyone with a little force of will. The only time something is "addictive" is when it becomes, or appears to be to the user, necessary for survival. While weed causes a positive association and can be "wanted" the sense of "NEED" that is felt by typical addicts is present in a very low percentage in the heavy level of smokers. [quote] Since the THC in cannabis can influence neuron activity, it's been suggested psychological studies (with emperical date backing it) that weed takes a part in causing schizophrenia in people who are predisposed to the condition. [/quote] This happens for the obvious reason stated in the sentence. This is because they are predisposed. Anything can trigger a person with a predisposition to schizophrenia to snap. Everything from seemingly being followed one day to hearing something bad on Tv. The actual science behind the disease itself is iffy at best. I see no need to address this beyond a simple "No duh" response. [quote] Now, it's known as an addictive substance, and the DSM IV, the BIBLE of psychiatrists and psychologists worldwide, often looked as the ultimate authority of psychological disorders, is including cannabis withdrawal and addiction as an official psychological/psychiatric phenomena in its next edition coming out in the fall. [/quote] Any branch of science that pretends to have the ability to gauge human emotion and mental response in the vast majority of the population when so many variables are possible ( psychology for example ) does a disservice to the rest of actual science. We know, in perspective of where what is stored, very little about the human brain. Psychology pretends to make rules about human response through pure observation of tiny groups ( sample groups ) then think they can apply it to all other humans. Humanity is far to diverse and the brain to unknown to make such wide scope claims. The "bible of psychology" is only slightly more trustworthy than the Christian one.
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  • Meh, still rather have a beer. At least it tastes good. And beer is a core part of my patent pending Ultimate Steak Marinate.

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  • Ok.

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  • The only argument that I can think of to keep weed illegal is that it smells funny. I still don't get how people want the economy to boost up, there's a potential way to get the economy boosted, and those people want that potential economic boost to still stay illegal.

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  • So um... China called, they've been raided by Mongolians.

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    • Modificato da DocSmurf: 2/26/2013 5:17:04 AM
      In the following counter walls of text, which I took the time to read, GUN seems to be caught primarily on the fact that Cannabis can cause expression of schizophrenia in people that are predisposed to it. So then we shall look at some numbers The Prevalance Rate for schizophrenia is approximately 1.1% of the population over the age of 18 (source: NIMH) or, in other words, at any one time as many as 51 million people worldwide suffer from schizophrenia, including; 6 to 12 million people in China (a rough estimate based on the population) 4.3 to 8.7 million people in India (a rough estimate based on the population) 2.2 million people in USA 285,000 people in Australia Over 280,000 people in Canada Over 250,000 diagnosed cases in Britain Lets operate under the assumption that weed will cause expression of the trait in 100% of all possible people. or about 2% of the population. Does this stand as a valid reason to keep it as a scheduled one illegal drug in the united states of america? I personally would say no. That would be as crazy as outlawing knives for everyone due to the number of knife crimes. Despite the fact that THC has been supported, recently even, to hold a positive correlation to the expression of mental illness doesn't warrant its status. This coupled with the fact that, despite the number of carcinogens, no positive correlation to lung cancer has been proven. ( i am currently reading up on gun's testicular cancer sources ) and the fact that the expression of the aforesaid hang entirely upon the amount of use, Heavy use to be exact, and the resent studies showing the principles of moderation have been in application for the majority of pot smokers polled in resent years, I see no reason Marijuana should retain its scheduled one status. Mostly due to the number of conditionals. Studies, late and recently, are testing under the assumption of heavy use. Like with anything moderation needs to be applied. Since i myself know people that use and observe first hand the amount and frequency of their use, i can tell you the amount that is being tested under is mis-representative of the amount of actual use by the populous.

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      • 0
        Some errors. First off, schizophrenia bascially ALWAYS has a prodrome period. Hearing voices on TV and feelings of being followed are NOT part of the beginning of the prodrome period, the feelings of persecution occur in the late part of the prodrome, but usually in the early active stages (in paranoid schizophrenics usually) but hearing voices is DEFINITELY only when schizophrenia is in its active stage, and prodrome period usually are present for 1- several years before schizophrenia manifests. Also, that is COMPLETE BS that "anything" can cause schizophrenia in those predisposed to it. There are only few things that allow schizophrenia to MANIFEST. Yes, the exact cause of it is not known, but MANY schizophrenics exhibit stereotypical behaviour that allows schizphrenia to manfiest. Social withdrawal is key, and confining oneself in solitude and doing activities during this (immense) periods of solitude (for me it was daydreaming and reading) and later not attending to feelings of anhedonia (lack of pleasure) and avolition (lack of motivation). The ONLY difference between people who are predisposed to the condition and people who are not (but later develop it) is people who have a parent/grandparent/first relative with the disease having a frequency of 7-10 percent of chances of succumbing to schizophrenia( because, newsflash, genes take part in controlling the way the neurotransmitters are released by arranging the brain structure (and therefore the location of terminal axons and synaptic clefts), and the regular population has a 1-2 percent chance of succumbing to schizophrenia. This is why marijuana's effects on schizophrenia is more pronounced in those who are predisposed to the disease, because they are, more or less, already 10 ten times more likely to succumb to it than the general population. So TLDR, after YEARS of research, there have been only a FEW key substances that are observed in the schizophrenic population, I know that from reading books on it AND counselling from psychiatrists. And, shocker, ALL of these substances either increase dopamine or suppress glutamate (increased dopamine and decreased glutamate are the two concentrations that are mainly discovered to be linked in schizophrenic brains), the KEY neurotransmitters that have been solely linked to it after DECADES of research. And shocker, it's been shown over YEARS of research that THC and cannabanoids suppress glutamate, which is why the weed-schizophrenia link has recently gathered even more support than before. The BLF published its study just MONTHS ago, and a lot of the MANY reports that weed significantly increases the chance of testicular cancer are also MONTHS ago, with new studies already in the stages of being published. Also, the carcinogens in weed and tobacco may be different, but funny you don't know that one of the most potent carcinogens in tobacco smoke, benzo(α)pyrene, is present in even greater amounts in marijuana smoke. Also, since I'm assuming you don't read most of the studies and are BSING part of your response, I'll let you know it's been found that people who smoke cannabis inhale it twice as long as cigarette smokers do to get a high. As marijuana smokers frequently inhale and hold the smoke in their lungs, this increases the amount of tar deposited in the respiratory system by about a factor of four, i.e MUCH more tar(which has not only been linked to lung cancer, but bronchitis, emphysema,etc) than people who smoke the same amount of tobacco. Ever wondered why MANY of the "let's compare people who smoke tobacco vs marijuana" use heavy smokers (10+ cigarettes) with casual pot smokers (1-2 joints) a day. No wonder, research shows that approximately 20% of regular pot smokers (and it only takes 3 to 4 joints a day) complain of chronic bronchitis, coughing and excess mucus, and this is even reported by some PRO WEED studies also (Donald Tashkins, the poster boy of the medical community for weed legalization even admits to it). BTW chronic bronchitis is often only found in HEAVY tobacco smokers (people who smoke 10+ cigarettes a day and the chain smokers). Light smoking (2-3 cigarettes) is often not associated with bronchitis. And you also no NOTHING about addiction apparently. You may think it's JUST a force of will, but apparently you know absolutely nada about the mechanisms of addiction. When the brain is introduced to a foregin substance such as a drug, it responds by releasing a drug from syanptic terminals known as dopamine (the drug that induces a pleasureful experience) that helps form new networks (dopamine is also the brain's MOST powerful neuromodulator, meaning it can modify/create new neural networks). When you smoke a drug, the dopamine creates neural networks that are dependant on the drug, but they are usually weak/quickly are destroyed or become extremely weak when you only smoke on occassion (let's say maybe at the odd party or a few times every couple or few months). BUT, thanks to Hebbian learning (neurons that fire together, wire together), the more consistently you smoke, the more these networks of neurons become stronger because the more they fire, the more their connection grows stronger, partially thanks to the Nernst equation (because brains, more or less, use electrical charges to communicate, so a lot of concepts in electrochemistry are used to explain this) and the fact the more the brain is stimulated by a something that it likes (i.e. causes pleasurable experience/the conscious brain, i.e. you, foresees a pleasurable such as drug) the more dopamine is released each time, further solidifying/helping expand these drug dependent networks. When these networks do not get their stimulus, they begin causing trouble, i.e. withdrawal begins, and it even causes physiological side affects in many cases. The force of willneed has to be VERY strong to overcome the PHYSIOLOGICAL changes in the brain--i.e. the brain is SHAPED by the drug that it needs IT to satisfy these newly created drug dependent networks (usually found in the limbic system, the emotional center of the brain that is heavily affected by most drugs). It requires A LOT of effort to reshape the brain so these drug dependent neural networks get weakened/destroyed. Apparently you don't know the amount of will it takes to overcome drug addiction, I've read a few accounts of drug addicts in their memoirs, one of whom is now an expert in the field of neuropharamcology/psychopharamcology and even wrote books on the physiological effects of drugs/his experiences, the more you use a drug the HARDER it gets and the MORE negative physiological effects will take place, not to mention the constant psychological withdrawal (wanting of drugs, which MANY drug addicts experience).

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        • I know this might be off-topic, but Schizophrenia is a fascinating mental disorder and I really wish we knew more about it. Anyways, I already knew most of this. But thank you for your informative post anyhow, OP.

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          • I agree OP, Alcohol, Nicotine, and Weed should all be illegal.

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              And please, let's have a discussion on my outdated sources. Number one, weed and cancer. The link between THC and testicular cancer was found a mere few months, and only since then have other studies been confirming it, some even adding that it's effects range as much as making a male twice as more likely to succumb to testicular cancer if he is a habitual user. And let's talk about the "outdated" belief that THC in cannabis causes schizophrenia. [url=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21363868]Oh look, a study about it less than two years ago[/url], and a [url=http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/teens-who-smoke-pot-at-risk-for-later-schizophrenia-psychosis-201103071676]nice article[/url] from Harvard Medical School summarizing it. And if we're talking about old information, let's completely ignore that very recently that scientists developed a drug that increases glutamate (a neurotransmitter) concentration in schizophrenics, experience IMMENSE success, so much that many believe it won't be too long before clinical trials begin expanding to many hospitals so more schizophrenics can receive this treatment. [url=http://www.bungie.net]As you can see[/url] from this recently published article, the glutamate hypothesis (the belief that the lack of glutamate is one of the key causes, if not the key one, that causes schizophrenia) has received much positive feedback on developing a pharmacological strategy that would optimize the number of glutamate receptors affected. Some nice articles demonstrating the effect THC has on decreasing glutamate levels: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19941959 http://europepmc.org/articles/PMC2809144/ http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1471-4159.2009.06489.x/abstract http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/apl/mcer/2004/00000003/00000002/art00001 http://lib.bioinfo.pl/paper:14657164 http://journals.ohiolink.edu/ejc/article.cgi?issn=10436618&issue=v61i0004&article=334_arograoarpet http://books.google.ca/books?id=-pKxUfkuoeYC&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=THC+and+decreased+glutamate&source=bl&ots=zshCdjDdyY&sig=6So8SIO9Q-sQaORH8qjhEzSj6VA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kwAsUeCaH5HqiQLfp4Bg&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=THC%20and%20decreased%20glutamate&f=false http://journals.ohiolink.edu/ejc/article.cgi?issn=00223042&issue=v112i0003&article=691_reograivehsp You'll find MUCH more articles saying THC reduces glutamate levels in the central nervous system than otherwise, and that more and more of the recently published articles are mainly in favour of THC decreasing glutamate in the brain. Now, schizophrenia has recently garnered interest in the fact that all these years while psychiatrists were treating patients with dopamine reducing drugs, believing that excess dopamine was the key cause, but recent trials with novel glutamate reducing drugs have experienced so much success that many believe that the ring leader that causes schizophrenia is very well the low levels of glutamate, and surprise surprise, THC has been found to reduce glutamate levels, even in moderate doses (in ULTRA low doses it's been suggested in one or two articles that it increases glutamate, but the authors of these articles even agreed that mild-moderate-high quantities THC most significantly does decrease glutamate). With that logic, maybe there is a clear connection between smoking pot everyday, even 2-4 joints, and increasing your risks for schizophrenia, a major psychiatric illness that, at this point, is impossible to cure (but with enough therapy and the like, and some medications, able to be put into remission). And let's talk about some more NEW research going on. Guess which cannabanoid receptor THC binds to the most? The CBI receptor (cannabanoid receptor type 1). The ligand that THC binds to is known as anandamide (Sanskrit word for "bliss"). It's been pretty established that anandamide is the ligand THC binds to and this is what causes the surge of neurotransmitters that induces cannabis' "high" in people. What the activation by the cannabanoid type 1 receptor does however, when the foreign THC is binded to the the anandamide receptor pretending it is acting as a natural cannabanoid is that it decreases the release of glutamate from the post synaptic terminal, meaning less glutamate activity overall. It is not unreasonable to assume that constant inhalation of THC can reduce the amount of glutamate that the brain produces, which is one of the causes of schizophrenia that has garnered much support. Just as an FYI, glutamate is the chief neurotransmitter that deals with memory, and experiment after experiment has often reported that THC causes much impairment in memory of the test subjects, mainly in the hippocampus and cerebellum (the two regions of the brain where glutamate is present the[b]most[/b]). Thus, giving more support that THC actively reduces the level of glutamate, and with enough inhalation, there could be so much decreased glutamate over a period of time that some symptoms of schizophrenia, or even the disease itself, are present. Of course this would probably occur more in the people with a genetic predisposition of schizophrenia from a parent or first relative, seeing as these people are 10 times more likely to succumb to schizophrenia than the general population. Some articles that THC is linked to schizophrenia and schizophrenia like disorders (and don't fall for the stupid belief that if an article is old it is outdated, it is ONLY outdated if it is redacted or there have been other studies proving otherwise): http://mentalhealth.about.com/od/chemicaldependency/a/thcyale604.htm http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-126056/How-cannabis-trigger-schizophrenia.html http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/white-noise/2011/07/11/legalize-pot-the-harmless-drug-and-schizophrenia/ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4305783.stm http://www.psmag.com/health/the-cannabis-and-schizophrenia-conundrum-10218/ You judge the quality of scientific studies based on their date, the general scientific population, however, judges the value of scientific hypotheses on CONSISTENCY and if you've read those articles, you'd find that many find the many studies, some from the 1970s, and others from a few months-years ago ALL confirming cannabis causing schizophrenia or schizophrenia like symptoms/disorders as evidence of "something being there", and the fact that recently the glutamate hypothesis gained more favor due to novel pharamcological methods that increase glutamamte getting positive results in their clinical trials, and that activation of the cannabanoid receptor type 1 (which is what THC mainly affects), there are even fewer complete skeptics now. [url=http://www.cell.com/abstract/S0092-8674(12)00142-0?switch=standard]Here's a recent article from Cell, one of the world's most exclusive and top notch scientific journals, talking about THC impairing memory and decreasing glutamate release, causing impaired higher level memory processes WHILE cannabanoids are present in the Central Nervous System.[/url]

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            • 0
              Why criticize the DSM IV when you JUST heard of it Einstein? It includes information on [u]psychiatric[/u] disorders, and all of the psychological data on it is the [b]biological[/b] division of psychology (i.e. psychologists who run wet labs and conduct scientific experiments on brain tissue to determine human behaviour, such as addictions). None of the artsy psychology, like the Oedipus or Elektra complex. is mentioned in the DSM IV, which is why it's mainly used by psychiatrists (who conduct psychiatric research , which falls under the domain of medical research which is essentially a branch of scientific research) to help administer proper medication and clinical psychologists to help identify psychiatric disorders and conduct proper treatment through dealing with cognition and the like( who treat brain disorders through discussion, non medicated treatment and mentoring, whereas psychiatrists primarily treat brain disorders through medication, if I remember correctly) And you also no NOTHING about addiction apparently. You may think it's JUST a force of will, but apparently you know absolutely nada about the mechanisms of addiction. When the brain is introduced to a foregin substance such as a drug, it responds by releasing a drug from syanptic terminals known as dopamine (the drug that induces a pleasureful experience) that helps form new networks (dopamine is also the brain's MOST powerful neuromodulator, meaning it can modify/create new neural networks). When you smoke a drug, the dopamine creates neural networks that are dependant on the drug, but they are usually weak/quickly are destroyed or become extremely weak when you only smoke on occassion (let's say maybe at the odd party or a few times every couple or few months). BUT, thanks to Hebbian learning (neurons that fire together, wire together), the more consistently you smoke, the more these networks of neurons become stronger because the more they fire, the more their connection grows stronger, partially thanks to the Nernst equation (because brains, more or less, use electrical charges to communicate, so a lot of concepts in electrochemistry are used to explain this) and the fact the more the brain is stimulated by a something that it likes (i.e. causes pleasurable experience/the conscious brain, i.e. you, foresees a pleasurable such as drug) the more dopamine is released each time, further solidifying/helping expand these drug dependent networks. When these networks do not get their stimulus, they begin causing trouble, i.e. withdrawal begins, and it even causes physiological side affects in many cases. The force of willneed has to be VERY strong to overcome the PHYSIOLOGICAL changes in the brain--i.e. the brain is SHAPED by the drug that it needs IT to satisfy these newly created drug dependent networks (usually found in the limbic system, the emotional center of the brain that is heavily affected by most drugs). It requires A LOT of effort to reshape the brain so these drug dependent neural networks get weakened/destroyed. Apparently you don't know the amount of will it takes to overcome drug addiction, I've read a few accounts of drug addicts in their memoirs, one of whom is now an expert in the field of neuropharamcology/psychopharamcology and even wrote books on the physiological effects of drugs/his experiences, the more you use a drug the HARDER it gets and the MORE negative physiological effects will take place, not to mention the constant psychological withdrawal (wanting of drugs, which MANY drug addicts experience). [url]http://www.memoirsofanaddictedbrain.com/[/url] [url]http://www.memoirsofanaddictedbrain.com/[/url] Two books written by two professors who are no stranger to neuroplasticity, the latter includes not just the author's view on it, but many others such as Michael Merzenich, who is considered the father of neuroplasticity and one of the leading experts in it in the entire scientific community.

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            • It's a government conspiracy, obviously.

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            • THC doesn't *mimic" cannabinoids. THC is a cannibinoid. There are many different types of cannibinoids. THC = Tetrahydrocannibinol

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              • Will the OP be joining me in session later today?

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              • Modificato da abelsinh: 2/25/2013 8:35:56 PM
                I'm not against weed, and I believe that it should be legal. But honestly, have you ever seen someone who is high? If yes, Can you honestly say that pot is beneficial?

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                • Ciggs should be banned too.

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                • GuN will be outraged when he sees that you have challenged his assertions.

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                  • Smoking anything is a serious cancer and vascular disease risk. Smoking pot is an intoxicant that impairs memory judgement and motor skills. Long term us does impair brain function and physically changes brain chemistry. (the changes in brain chemisty is the empirical link to back the claim of long term heavy users being more prone to psychosis.) It has the same dependency, brain altering, and impairment risks as alcohol. And should be treated similarly. The drawback being there isn't a cheap and easy method of testing how intoxicated you are. It has the same public health risks as smoking tobacco, and should also be given those restrictions as well.

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                    • Drugs are bad!

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