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10/22/2022 9:24:43 AM
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[quote]These are 100% detectable so stop saying there is no way to do it.[/quote]
Feel free to share a method at which an anti cheat instance can 100% safely decides whether or not it is a controller, or a third party input.
Trust me, this is extremely hard since input mechanisms have no level of authentication.
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But you can monitor speed input.
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Sure, but there is no [u]100% safe[/u] way to use this as a clear indication of cheats. I understand that it's a decent indicator, but as long as it isn't 100%, it can't be used for anti cheats.
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You can pair this with player reports. Plus that input speed is insanely impossible for humans. You can flag their accounts and send them warnings. They are not doing anything. That's the greatest problem.
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Modificato da SolarCerberuS: 10/22/2022 11:07:29 AMSimple, humans no matter how good they are will have discrepancies in input timing, it might only be milliseconds but it will change. Scripts, macros wont have those discrepancies and will repeat everytime. Develop software to detect this and viola you will be able to identify those using them. Problem is you would most likely have to treat macro users the same as the device users so they would have to make macro use against the terms of service. For this reason likely cannot be done for PC as it could exclude players with disabilities that rely on macros to play but should be able to be implemented for consoles as m&k isnt officially supported for D2 on those.
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[quote]Simple, humans no matter how good they are will have discrepancies in input timing, it might only be milliseconds but it will change. Scripts, macros wont have those discrepancies and will repeat everytime. Develop software to detect this and viola you will be able to identify those using them. Problem is you would most likely have to treat macro users the same as the device users so they would have to make macro use against the terms of service. For this reason likely cannot be done for PC as it could exclude players with disabilities that rely on macros to play but should be able to be implemented for consoles as m&k isnt officially supported for D2 on those.[/quote] They are struggling to dev game at times, now you want them to dev or implement some home brewed anti cheat software Ahh no, just no dude, it won’t work well, lots of false positives etc..
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This can be implemented within the game, no need for an additional system or software.
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Modificato da SolarCerberuS: 10/22/2022 1:04:18 PMThats the beauty of it cant be false positives as no human has perfect input, if the combination these scripts mimic is identically timed everytime there is no denying scripts are being used. Problem is its not a quick process so requires investment, a team devoted to sifting through the data gathered (or completely automating it) and then policing it which all costs money and we all know spending money on the actual game doesnt come a high priority for Bungie. Besides Id be willing to bet Bungie are waiting on the platforms like steam/microsoft/sony to do it.
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[quote]Thats the beauty of it cant be false positives as no human has perfect input, if the combination these scripts mimic is identically timed everytime there is no denying scripts are being used. Problem is its not a quick process so requires investment, a team devoted to sifting through the data gathered (or completely automating it) and then policing it which all costs money and we all know spending money on the actual game doesnt come a high priority for Bungie. Besides Id be willing to bet Bungie are waiting on the platforms like steam/microsoft/sony to do it.[/quote] The problem is that false positive will and can happen. People can (also by accident) input perfect inputs. It happens and these people would falsely get banned. It‘s one of the most challenging aspects of developing an anti cheat software. False positives are sometimes you can never [b]risk[/b] in an anti cheat software
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Not at that speed, it's impossible to do this consistently.
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People cannot replicate down to the millisecond time and time again it is impossible for anyone to accomplish, timing would have to be perfect for the input combinations every time a weapon is fired or any other input activating a script
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The problem are the kills you didn‘t meant to do: you tried to snipe one guy and someone would run into your crosshair and you snipe the first pixel of his hitbox. Or if you try a super lucky flick snipe and pull the trigger at a random timing. Then those things happen and you‘ll get false positives. Like a said. It‘s one of the biggest challenges of anti cheat programs.
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Yeah I think we are on different pages here. What Im saying is the scripts work by initiating a sequence of simulated button presses with one actual input. A player not running them would have discrepancies across those, a player using scripts wouldnt as every time they fire the script would run to counter recoil for example and that would be identical everytime the player shoots down to the millisecond which is impossible for a player to do without running scripts.
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Modificato da Arizath: 10/22/2022 5:17:24 PM[quote]Yeah I think we are on different pages here. What Im saying is the scripts work by initiating a sequence of simulated button presses with one actual input. A player not running them would have discrepancies across those, a player using scripts wouldnt as every time they fire the script would run to counter recoil for example and that would be identical everytime the player shoots down to the millisecond which is impossible for a player to do without running scripts.[/quote] I think I understand what you are saying. And I personally think that those sequences of inputs are very good indicators for cheats. But sadly this doesn't solve the problem of that not having 0% false positive chances. It is risky using inputs as a standalone point for [u]automated bans[/u]. I think monitoring the sequence and report suspicious behavior to send it to bungie employees to investigate the case would be the perfect answer. But having automated bans for only input sequences is a flawed concept and nothing is worse than banning people for doing nothing.
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Shouldnt be false positives when there would be possibly hundreads of shots fired per match. It wouldnt be a detection over 2 to 3 indicators, hundreads of scripted shots per match with 0 input deviation wouldnt allow for the error of false positives, every shot fired by a player would be used not just a few, the scripts used by the cheaters runs every time the controller button is pressed.
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[quote]Shouldnt be false positives when there would be possibly hundreads of shots fired per match. It wouldnt be a detection over 2 to 3 indicators, hundreads of scripted shots per match with 0 input deviation wouldnt allow for the error of false positives, every shot fired by a player would be used not just a few, the scripts used by the cheaters runs every time the controller button is pressed.[/quote] I'm just trying to explain that where it's technically possible, it has potential for false positives. A very well implemented algorithm might get the chance of false positives close to zero. But good luck trying to build such an algorithm. At university we talk about the topic "data science" which is surprisingly close to the problem we talk about right now. We would want a [url=https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/pattern-recognition-introduction/]pattern recognition algorithm[/url] that classifies inputs as "cheating" and "non-cheating" and this is one hell of a difficult problem
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While I agree its technically possible for a false positive the likelihood of one from such a detection system would be so substantially low seeing as a player would have to have absolute perfect timing under every situation in a match that it would require superhuman cognitive function, reaction times and mechanical input to allow for a player to fall into the false positive. Say for example a script had a mere 2 inputs (they likely have more) Be it the firing action and a single directional correction for an anti recoil script. The time delay difference between the 2 actions under a script would never change down to the millisecond, now no human is capable of even coming near to having the exact same time delay of just those 2 inputs over the many times it would run in a single match. Hell even over a small 10 shots I would be quite confident on being able to pick the cheats from legit players If such a system would/could be developed and used.
