I agree with you in the fact that leviathan was too focused on little encounters and not the fun of killing bosses on the way to the final boss. Kings fall and WOTM were great bc it had a mix of both, giving a great overall raiding experience. However I don't think you want to get rid of complicated mechanics bc they need to make raids challenging enough to give you those "Hero" moments, and feelings of great satisfaction when you finally slay the final boss. if the mechanics are not tough enough then everyone will be able to complete raids, and the end game won't feel as special. IMO Destiny is more inclined to hardcore players or it tries to be at least... You have to be willing to put the time in and people who only complete raids once are probably not as hardcore or play more solo than with a fireteam. I can say that it felt pretty good completing Spire for the first time as it was pretty tough mechanic wise. This is also balanced out by the fact that EoW was so easy. Overall what we need is another Kings Fall. Another tough final boss that everyone starts cheering at the end. i remember thinking I could never beat it because it was so hard but when we did It was the GREATEST. This is just my opinion... lemme know thoughts...

I agree. The mechanics in VoG, Crota's End, WotM were good. A lot of the mechanics in D2's raids so far are silly.

I’d prefer more puzzles, platforming, and simple team mechanics (such as standing on things to help each other pass, cleansing each other, or shooting each other free of traps). I’m not a big fan of one fail all fail mechanics that we’ve seen in the last few raids. VoG and Crota’s End were great in that a teammate could die and you could confidently pick up the pieces. It gives your team a chance to scramble and think on their feet, versus just following the single YouTube strategy with no room for error.

SoS is the best raid since King's Fall (minus the crap loot table). I honestly hope the new one is like it mechanically.

I bet 'everyone' you spoke to would be grinding Spire if there were more loot. Mechanics is what makes raids...raids. Just running around shooting bullet sponges is what strikes are for. Also dogs is one of the best encounters in Destiny history.

Complex mechanics are necessary for raids to be fun. Assuming that by fun you mean boring joyless wastes of time that are largely responsible for why about 70% of the population quits playing for the most part once they've played through new content. Bungie won't be specific on the overall percentage of players who play the raids. They will give percentages on their active user base, but not totals... So lets have a look. Belly of the beast. Complete leviathan raid at least once. 18.6% have bothered to do this even once. I'm intentionally leaving off "prestie versions" because that's a different conversation. That should be complicated and irritating because it's supposed to be hard......9.4 btw. Epic raider... 14.4%, got that on January 21st 2015. Raider, 20.8%. The King Is Dead..... 9.0.............. 9% of everyone who has ever played this game has completed kings fall. 5.5 did the hard mode. 5.2 did the Wrath raid, and 2.9 did the hard mode. Look. I'm sorry but you can have a game that's successful or you can have a game that fails but pleases less than 20% of it's players. Fact of the matter is. If you are a salty hardcore gamer who need the end game content to be a shitty over complicated experience? Bungie is better off if you rage quit over them making the raids too easy, then letting 80 to 95% of the player base leave as soon as they are finished with the story and a few side quests. You want to know what killed Destiny? It wasn't the micro-transactions, it wasn't the focus on pvp, it wasn't the bland weapons mechanics. It was you. You killed the game. You can either get over your selves and have a game that's fun to play and encourages players to stay into the endgame content all the way to the end. Or you can have a pointlessly complex obtuse endgame that deliberately excludes players. If you want to have a game to play at all, plan on being more inclusive or start looking for other titles cause this one's next release isn't going to decide rather it returns to profitability, it decides rather or not Destiny will even continue to exist. Edit to add. These figures are as presented by PSN. They are largely mirrored on xbl and other platforms. Baring in mind that many players played this game across multiple platforms and it was about equally popular across platforms, it doesn't much change the overall percentages very much. If you'd like to assume that Sony is not accurately reporting their trophy percentages, that's possible. It's more likely Bungie is inflating their figures than that the consoles are deliberately underselling them. But you can believe what you want, I'm sure the Illuminati or space aliens are behind it.

I'm Deaf. Did VoG/CE/King's Fall tons of times. Made sure to let the leader know that I'm deaf and which spot I want to take care of (especially for KF during Totem/Plate-holder). Attempted WotM once but failed to finish off Aksis. Never did it again due to my slots on equipments/vaults/postmaster being nearly full. Did AoT VoG (didn't bothered with the rest of AoT raids), beaten it (too many tries during Templar for challenge). Got Exotic Fatebringer, though. XD Attempted Leviathan couple times, never finished both (Dog part is the easiest). The final 2 Lairs can kiss my shiny behind goodbye since I have no desire to do so (except doing weekly challenges for SoS). Thankfully, I will quit Destiny when its Forsaken is released and will jump to my Switch to play Xenoblade Chronicles 2 full time.

I see this post was posted 50 hours ago and at this point it is a little too late for them to change anything. Forsaken is already done and most likely they're doing play testing to try to catch as many bugs as possible and starting to work on the annual pass content I certainly hope it's worth the $35 they charged us.

Mechanics need to be Simple to understand, Simple to follow and Simple to pull off.

Honestly id like a raid lair that was made like a big 2 hour strike.

D1 raids and trials where good shit. Love them both absolutely loved the armor and weapons from both. With a good time with buddies to boot D2 raids? If 1-2 members are drunk or high mix that with 1-2 video game illiterate people in the fireteam makes for a not fun experience. I cant piggy back anyone. Not to mention I only completed the normal leviathan raid a handful of times. Wasnt that fun and I never even tried the second or the third. Because I knew I wouldn't enjoy them either D2 trials? Ddos, corner camping, team shooting, cowards running, cheating in general made me give that up too. I like a challenge do not get me wrong. In a video game I want entertainment while I'm being challenged. Not getting bored and annoyed.

I have no desire to even load spire of stars up. If I want to throw a ball around I'll do it outside with a baseball and a real person

I used to run 3/4 of CE solo whenever my group wasn't able get on that week just because the raid was fun. Ran Kings Fall and WOTM every week for a long time. You could tell with each raid it was getting more technical which was getting annoying. You shouldn't have 6 different people doing 6 different things while it only takes 1 person to mess up a tiny bit to cause a wipe. That becomes a chore and not fun. Difficult is good, tedious is bad. I'd rather get lost in the VOG and spend 30 minutes trying to figure out what we are doing and laughing at ourselves instead of spending an hour repeatedly wiping on some tedious unnecessary thing. Raids should not be that complex with strange tedious mechanics. VOG is still considered by many to be the best raid ever, and each one from that point being less good... Bungie needs to setup it up a bit with raids.

Hate to say it, but the raid is already finished in development. Probably has been for some time. Any advice on the issue probably won’t take effect until the NEXT raid

Spire is the only raid I haven’t completed. Haven’t even attempted it. 52 completions between leviathan and eow...

The mechanics wouldn't be an issue if they could institute them without all the damn glitches.

What I would like to see. 1. Get rid of revive tokens (allow unlimited in normal mode) 2. Hard mode, no revives 3. Instead of bullet sponge enemies for difficulty, just add more enemies to increase the difficulty. 4. Mechanics are fine for boss fights, but don't make them over complicated. 5. stop with the artificial set level difficulty. Make the raid difficulty scale to the teams average light.