And not everyone loves pve either.

The matchmaking is a killer. It’s not even like you can just grind it out without sacrificing lots of time sitting in lobby… Awfull.

OP is right - separate PvP / PvE. There should be separate path options for both. Example: The GG Champ Title. Have two versions. Call them whatever you want....or have one drop with a Vanguard stamp, one with a Crucible stamp. -blam!- gives a F*ck how anyone gets there. Or farm it & get both. Does the current PvP participation requirement for the Champ Title demand a lot? No. Just 2 of 21 steps if you include the Gambit step. But the point is - - it causes far more issues than its worth. Where's the pay off? Warm bodies in Crucible temporarily?......when that happens everyone b*tches because someone is camping or not playing the objective, etc., etc. How about ....Preserving game identity? Both are BS. In a public event like this.....same loot pool. These GG weapons roll perks good for both PvP and P'vE = zero sum loss players wanting for "that shiny thing" via an area of play they don't want to be in.....on either side. The back n forth in here is the past 10 years of most Destiny root cause problems in a nutshell. Bottom line - This is about Bungie giving players what IT wants to give them and not what most of the players want. All in the name of preserving its storyline, which has created well documented issues since D1....torn the game down & doing nothing but stir the pot. Me personally? I love the idea of melded PvP / PvE. Classics like the original Thorn Quest never again to be seen.... I'm sure. Unfortunately. But the melding formula within this franchise has proven to cause HUGE issues that go well beyond GG.....most of which could have been avoided entirely if Bungie was less prideful. Sincerely yours, Ten year PvP main

Agree, and have said this before, two options for the one quest should be considered, either by doing pve or pvp to obtain the same achievment

I’d actually say the poor pre orders are in part due to the recent management issues that have come to light mixed with their own greed as a company and lastly the narrative team. All of those combined spell out a sinking ship a mile away, and where it hurts me the most is the narrative team, specifically the lead director. They’re extremely hostile to anyone who doesn’t agree with their agendas, and defend companies like SBI (Sweet Baby Inc) who are arguably not good for video games as a whole. Now don’t take to me calling me whatever ism in the book. I will defend good story telling and narrative freedom if it’s done right, but as of recently all I see is diverse this change that not for meaningful reasons, but to just send a message and push an agenda. As for the pvp stuff. I don’t like the pvp myself, but I’ve just come to accept it. If I go in not trying and maybe just shooting a wall or something I’ll enjoy it more than actively fighting sweatlords.

The quest step is literally there to force player numbers up in PVP. They won’t remove it from quests because they need you in there to get farmed by sweats so they have something to do. The other option would be putting time and effort into developing more PVP content, but that takes money from deserving shareholders and CEOs.

That's funny because I feel the same about monotonous PVE quests. No one is forcing you to do them. 99% of the time there are both PVE and PVP options available for the same reward.

I would also prefer you punch yourself.

Hilarious how you kids buy a guy and then act all cool that you refuse to play 1/3 of it. Literally no one is forcing you to play PvP but if you don’t want to play a big part of the game, then you won’t progress certain quests. That’s how every single game works and you acting entitled about that won’t change anything.

You think people didn't pre-order Final Shape over PvP quests they don't need to do?

If you cant handle being beat by better players then your complaints cant be fixed by devs

Pvp isn't bad when you have a population, unlike what we have now, 3v3 trials or comp and our 6v6 hundred million dollar super grandmaster competition No but seriously we need people to play so shyt can start acting right

If you're not having fun, stop playing. A break is healthy.

Pretty sure doing quests is "optional", champ. You obviously don't understand the meaning of "forced".

I used to be like this, but then I simply stopped caring and playing pvp. Quests or no quests, I ain't playing pvp. Iron Banner here and there is OK, but everything else is a no go.