I play on pc and I have to put my whole heart and soul into winning 1v1s against people on controller using a gnawing hunger with targetting adjuster

Keep in mind that these are the same people that took up until SK to fix a "firing animation bug" on 140/150 HCs. These are the same people who have a habit of putting more important information/ details on sites like Reddit instead of THEIR OWN WEBSITE. Perfect example being when they announced the Recluse nerf. Not 2 days later they apparently knew they were nerfing MoA from 90%-21%.. These are the same people who never addressed the Zero Hour/ Whisper bug, but patched it anyway without warning. Took 2 months to fix Lord of Wolves, but fixed PLens in less than a week. Took years to fix one bug on the Polaris Lance, I haven't checked if the catalyst has been fixed. Punish players on forums for giving video evidence of obvious hacks, but don't do anything about the hacker for up to 2 weeks. Disable bugged exotics that were almost if not PVE exclusive for "being too strong" for weeks, but didn't do so for LoW. Disabled Quiver for Shadowshot in D1 (and delayed Trials for it), but did NOTHING for any similar bugs and glitches regarding supers in D2 until they were patched. In fact, they told players to have fun. Rather than add a new quest/ mission for returning weapons like the Myghoclast, they're seriously going to recycle content from 6 years ago. Because it takes less work to bring back entire zones and raids and update them than it does to make a single mission or dungeon. I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting. Edit: They auto complete quests in IB if enough people complain about it, but they don't do so for actual bugs in quests or quests that have extra steps than they're supposed to. I remember the Lumina quest not even hinting that you had to kill the invader within 10 seconds, just before they kill anyone. How about the IB quest from Opulence and how the description said SUPER KILLS, but melee and grenades were still objectives when it clearly only said SUPER KILLS before giving the objectives. How about the "Perfect Fifth" kills on the Polaris Lance and how as far as I know, it still demands kills with the burn damage that the weapon doesn't even tell you it has instead of the explosions?

Revoker is gonna get sunset so you may see less of it but I agree 600 rpm autos need to go back to where they were. And bungie needs to do some balancing for certain archetypes to allow them to shine in their designed areas. Precision weapons like hand cannons and scouts should have the fastest ttk in my opinion.

You know how you beat an auto? Last word. Know how you beat an Auto? Last word Know how to beat an auto?? Last word Last word, last word, last word. Sorry to say but AR's are the second most -blam!- made thing to use in game so you fight -blam!- with -blam!-. As much as I hate to do that, its the best counter. Last word can still three tap and it has super forgiving although not very consistent strafe shooting so that auto will lose 7 out of 10 times

Funny. I don’t remember you here complaining about an unbalanced sandbox during the two years that hand cannons were the fastest killing weapons in the game.....

From what I'm hearing, this thread was edited to keep updoots. ARs are balanced if not still bad as a general rule (450s are the worst primary archetype in the game, 360s are decent, if outclassed by most PRs, 720s are good but very rigid, 600s are meta, but inflexible in terms of use). 0.7 seconds optimal is only achieved with user error on the part of the opponent. Else you're even with, and therefore lose to hand cannons in terms of TTK (hand cannons whole-heartedly win TTK ties). Also keep in mind that Legendary Lightweight Cannons have (exaggeration) wrists count as crits as the general rule of thumb for aim assist is ballpark 90+ (Rations and JQK have base 93, Dire has base... 85 I think?). This is on top of very easily controlled recoil on controller due to single shots with monodirectional recoil, which is different to ARs having very low, if sometimes hard to control recoil. Overall, 600s I think are fine, if needing to air on the side of a very small range nerf (no, they aren't effective across the map unless that map is named Shipment).

I see a lot of people talk about skill in this game, and to be honest I don’t really think anything in this game takes any skill to use; I do agree that 600s are nuts, I’ve been using good ol duty bound a lot more; I think they should scale the damage down 1 point and see how that affects the usage. but back to my original point. There’s just so many things in this game that screw with the idea of skill being relevant. Snipers can be turned into point and click adventures with any or combinations of the following: revoker/beloved + targ adjuster and sniper targeting perk on helmets. There’s so much aim assist there, beloved already has 68 base, + 20 from combo of targ ad and enhanced sniper targeting. That also somehow affects hip firing, just watch badass gaming’s clips on it, it’s nuts. Then of course, high impact fusions exist. Bastion, TLW, Suros, list goes on. What’s funny is all the weapons that are in a really good spot break archetypes. You saw a similar issue back when Luna’s and NF were 180 RPM. It would 3 shot despite its archetype being a 4 tap. Suros is in the same spot right now. Spinning up literally makes it faster TTK than any 600 RPM in the meta. Of course, supers add another realm of inconsistency. There aren’t really any hard counters to them, other than maybe vorpal weapon and another super. I still use sentinel just for the suppressor nade, but I’ve started to just use one and done supers and wipe any super incoming. I think bungie should really even out inconsistencies between legendary archetypes and exotics, and possibly also address the nonsense that targeting perks lead to. I doubt supers will be addressed, but maybe something around damage resistance being reduced on most roamings? Idk. Just my thoughts from playing. Sorta off topic.

My Galliard says you need to STFU. Have a nice day.

Dont worry they will fix them, by nerfing them in to the ground, making them low tier and buffing some other crap so its S tier. Bungie methods of fixing things.

You are completely right, but no one cares because when weapons are easy to use for kills, no one wants them nerfed. Right now ANYONE could slay in crucible by just participating and holding down fire. No skill needed. No aim needed. But people dont care because they like it when there isnt a skill ceiling in a game that should have one.

Changed the title and description I see. Let's talk about ARs. The 360s are decent, I'd say they're better than the 450. The only one I've ever used was the new one and it's a keeper. The 450s suck, the only good one is Breakneck and even that doesn't exactly count. The 600s are the most reliable. They often have the most well balanced stats and have a fast enough ttk that even Youtubers like Aztecross and I think Datto believe pre-nerf Recluse would be fine in the meta. The 720s have the shortest range, often the slowest handling, and the stability is often misleading. I prefer 450s over them. Let's talk about the ARs you mentioned. Summoner. Well either it's EXTREMELY accurate or the vast majority of it's users have a headshot accuracy of at least 80%. It also feels like it causees more flinch. Suros. I almost never see anyone using it. I've used it before against the other ARs and either I'm not as accurate with it as I think, or it really does start off slow, meaning it should lose every time unless you prefire around corners. Gnawing Hunger. It's drop rate was abysmal, fewer people used it than people using Breakneck in PVP. I think you meant Hard Light with this one. How to tune them? 360s are fine. 450s/ 720s could use more range and/ or damage. 600s, decrease range by 5-10 meters tops

600 RPMs can kill faster than a trace rifle and that’s “balanced” to bungie

What's the point of using a scout or a pulse when 600 rpm autos do their jobs better?

My Summoner easily goes toe to toe with Suros and Gnawing Hunger. They are all fine like they are.

Suros is the worst out of all.. fully charged up you can go head to head with a light machine gun.. Plus everyone that uses it pre-fires before even seeing the enemy..

I’ve literally been seeing everything used in PVP