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Modificato da Spawn:
12/12/2018 2:42:52 PM
329
Anyone else think Raids have become over engineered and too complicated?
It'd be a Saturday night, and I'd be kicking back with my fireteam, large Jack Daniels next to me.
We'd start a raid and maybe some of us would be inexperienced or new to it?
But we'd have a laugh and Troll each other, by pushing people off ledges, or instructing them wrongly for the giggles.
But there was no pressure, the mechanics weren't too challenging, and it didn't take long to learn.
As I watch each new raid drop, I watch a stream or YouTube, and sit and think - WTF?
A catalogue of tasks that must be performed, a light level needed that'll take ages to achieve.
Weaponry and armour that you'll have needed to have traded your freedom for.
And RNG drops of exotics, that simply don't happen.
Glue some elitism into the mix as well.
I go into a new raid and I should already be experienced lol
LW dropped and within 48hrs lfg sites were littered with "Must have experience" - within 48hrs??
I'm just saying it just seems like the fun aspect has been ripped out, and replaced with over complicated mechanics.
Perhaps to extend game play?
What ever happened to NORMAL MODE and HARD MODE?
Yeah where did that go?
I'm not struggling, hell I'm 628 pretty much across 3 characters, and have smashed LW out a lot.
I'm just saying how this is all seeming to be heading in the wrong direction.
Where did all the fun go?
[spoiler]Moderator edit: This thread has been moved to #Feedback forum so that other Destiny players can weigh in. [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/139533839/0/0] See Cozmo's thread here[/url] for more information about the #Feedback tag and its uses.
Feel free to private message the moderator who moved your post, link to topic for further clarification about why this topic was moved.[/spoiler]
English
#feedback
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The issue with "Must have experience" has been around since the beginning. None of the raids in my opinion are too complicated for anyone to handle. One of the things I do like about the raids is that each encounter generally has 3-4 of the guardians responsible for wipe mechanics while leaving 2-3 players able to take care of the enemies. This has been the structure since the beginning and it is good for both casual and experienced raiders. Another thing that may appear to be 'over engineered' is Bungie's attention to the issues during the encounters. You may not realize it but early raids were extremely buggy, lagged, etc. where timing seemed very off and random some times. Take Crota standing up for example. Most of the encounters in D2 have been ironed out and the bugs do not seem to be as prevalent. It can be exhausting learning new mechanics as each raid brings new challenges to the players so it may just 'feel' like there is too much engineering where, in reality they are right on point. With all of this said, I do feel that phase 2 val'caur in SoS is over-engineered. This would be the only thing that is over the top. There are so many phases and the window for reaching damage phase can be very challenging if you do not have coordinated players. And, once you finally reach damage phase, you are greeted by defensive missile barrages that essentially inhibit the ability to deal damage to the boss. There are a lot of good mechanics in the fight but compared to Calus, Argos, Riven, and now the Insurrection Prime, this fight is hardly rewarding.
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the raids have gone from d1 raids being hard to survive but still being able to continue if someone dies to d2 raids with the question of how well can your random team communicate if the answer is yes the raid is absurdly easy if the answer is no then well have fun
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I just find that the raids are not worth the effort and frustration of finding a good team of people. It really takes time to put together a good, non-toxic raid team. And I don't find the new raids fun enough or rewarding enough to put in the investment.
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7% think they need to keep the casuals out. Good luck having a game to play if just you guys hang around and pay Bungie's bills. About 2/3 of the people think raids have gone at least a little too far, do you really think the filthy casuals are going to continue to be happy playing part of a game? WTF ever happened to friendship being the endgame? I guess that just sounded good at the time for when people complained there was nothing worth getting in the raid.
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The raids have progressively gotten better since 2014. People saying they haven't and to bring back the vault and all that trash are living in an alternate reality. LW was completely ruined because of some garbage cheese that they decided not to patch. And y'all are making post about raids being to complicated? Jeez
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I said yes but let me say I haven't raided in D2 at all. I raided quite a bit in D1. Just watched videos and saw what they did and I just want to question their choices. Why would you add something like GG because you want more people raiding but turn around and make a wipe mechanic out of one person dying and you can't revive them? Makes no sense. That just makes less people raid. People become more and more encircled into their own group and not inviting because of all these added layers.
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All you would have to do is give infinite revives and problem solved.
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Thank you.
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I think last wish is ok in terms of difficulty (coming from a riven cheese perspective). It is the raid lairs that seem overly mechanic heavy, spire of stars being an excellent case in point.
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I don't really understand this. There's no exotics you need for any raid and the mechanics are fairly simple. They shouldn't be simple as they are the pinnacle end game activity. You wanna kick back, there's a whole rest of the game to play for that.
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Nope. I don't want a strike boss lol.
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If Raids are LESS Laborious, and task driven to extend the time it takes so that there is more content for Streamers, which markets the game for Bungie, and they make money in return off donations, views, etc depending on which platform it's on. Raids Encounters should play like a Nightfall, be enjoyable, where each encounter should have a buff, and debuff that can be activated during the encounter. this could have been an IDEAL PLAY for the infinite forest to be a thing, but no. I mean, my Fireteam Last week. we ran back to back Nightfalls we did all three. If you can have a Raid, where each Boss from the lair you just completed drops a component that is required to unlock the Final Encounter before the Master loot Chest, then that would be great? Mechanical components ads to the stress factor some people experience during a raid, which makes it unpleasant for them to complete. Or just give us back Prison of Elders. as an additional Vanguard Activity.
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1 RispondiModificato da GuessedSiren463: 12/12/2018 10:17:47 AM[quote].......I go into a new raid and I should already be experienced lol LW dropped and within 48hrs lfg sites were littered with "Must have experience" - within 48hrs?? I'm just saying it just seems like the fun aspect has been ripped out, and replaced with over complicated mechanics.[/quote] I don't get these type of posts. These are obviously douches with a Napoleon complex who are not allowed responsibility in the real world. *edit* when I say "posts" I'm referring to the lfg posts the OP mentioned.
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2 RisposteI feel the same. I beat all the raids in D1. I beat Calus only once and haven't finished anything else. Raids in D2 look like they are made for the hard core player.
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Stop the symbols [spoiler]please[/spoiler]
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8 RisposteIve stop playing the raids coz of how unfun they or even last wish imo vog was the best raid and wotm was the worst raid because it was the first raid to start with all the dumb puzzles and fake difficulty
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6 RisposteI haven't been raiding (due to a number of issues), but here's my general comment: I don't like scripted games. You know, anything with MUST DO components. - MUST stand here - MUST use this weapon to have enough DPS - MUST collect these balls and throw them because regular weapons don't work etc. Anything with an invulnerability phase is a clear indication of a stinker. Dark Souls boss designs are pure genius, IMHO (with some exceptions, Bed of Chaos is the anti-example here). They are difficult enough so you really need to have a strategy instead of just blindly mashing buttons... ...but multiple strategies can be made to work. Some character builds will find some fights harder -- but it's always doable. E.g. The Moonlight Butterfly fight could easily have been made so you MUST HAVE ranged attacks -- and a lazy designer would have done exactly that. But they added the "bomb phase" to give melee characters a window to attack.
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I like how the D1 raids were. You collaboratively worked to open the raid. From there you would be faced with your first boss. Then it was either a jumping puzzle, maze, or curve ball activity. Then another boss. A final collaborative effort to draw out the boss. Finally the boss. Everything just worked so well when it was something like the format above. D2 I loved the Calus raid but only because I got the concept of it. The 2 lairs...meh. Last wish I didn't bother with...those 18 hrs put me off but I enjoyed watching it. I've only done four riven clears with clan mates as I've had my arm twisted to go in with sins of the past...
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Than watch a YouTube guide
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I like the idea of the yearly raid being hard as shit and complicated while the mid-year raid(s) like Scourge of the Past being more simple and fun/silly
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1 RispondiYes they are over engineered. They are enjoyable with a group of experienced players, but painful to have to go through with inexperienced groups repeatedly. I did hundreds of raids in D1 and barely a handful in D2. I felt VoG struck a nice balance in D1 where a few people could carry the group. A nice way to get newer players into raiding. Don’t get me wrong, the new raids are good, it’s just that the margin for error is too small.
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Potato confirmed.
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there a pain sometimes but u get use to them over time, i just get impatient wen it comes to getting my light level up quicker once u get to 540+ that needs to be fixed.
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Well said... I feel like we never fight a boss too. We always fight adds and/or some mechanic to make boss vulnerable to damage him. I would love to have a boss fight where he fights back n we have to avoid his attacks, while killing adds and/or doing a mechanic at the same time.
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God forbid raids are any harder than strikes.
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