I pretty much played destiny only for its life span. I consider it over. Been on a small handful of times in the past several + months. For whatever reasons, timing & ingenuity, halo was a masterpiece in so many ways. I never played halo 1 or 2, & really enjoyed 3 4 & reach. So, anyway, I love gaming. When I'm not doing grown up things, I game. I loved the halos, multi-player was revolutionary. Then we heard about destiny, & everyone was really excited. I, for some reason, which was my fault, thought destiny would be an mmo fps rpg space aged epic game. Idk why... maybe what I heard at the time, IDK. I thought it would be amazing to have the opportunity to play a bungie game, granted their reputation, the hype, & speculation, with almost a 10 year plan, & be there from the beginning, & go through the evolution with friends. That all was appealing to me. I even bought the 1 for destiny. Beta drops, had so much fun. One thing really stood out to me. I remember soloing the devil Walker for 30 minutes, it was tough.. remember ? Anyways, I go to the remains, & there was not a single drop. That was weird to me. But I thought, no worries, its just the beta ! (This is destiny to me, so close to being epic, but not.) The first almost 2 years, were amazing. Everything was so fresh, & every one competed in many ways. Fun. But then there were things like 5X rng, micro transactions rng, invisible walls everywhere, kill zones everywhere, stationary bullet sponge bosses, very limited time events showing up 1 or maybe 2 times ever, hands outs/easy to rank up, time gates, 1 run per week for drops, Titanic full of reskins, raids & crucible being the only game modes with replay ability, all sorts of nerfs, over all lack of content, story, dialogue, customization. Speculation is other things that have gone wrong, cut content etc. & charging top dollar fair content, imo. I spent money, played a silly amount of hours, had awesome times with awesome people. But I partially held on to hopefully see some serious growth & evolution, & many games out there are just straight trash, I'm. No kidding, I wanted an open world fps space aged shooter with all the bells & whistles. Destiny is kinda almost that, that's why I stay posting & stick around . Still on the fence. I do want to play for myself and get my own opinion.

Pvp and pve tuning is separate. . I like most of the changes that I'm seeing for D2.

Hey CL. I've taken my time in responding to this thread for a number of reasons. We've touched on this in other threads that talked about the state of the forums. We've generally been of the same mindset with things over our time here and I respect you for your straight up no BS way of posting. I think you're a little off here if you're give me a moment to explain. (If you feel I'm quoting out of context let me know) [quote]True haters are pretty rare around here. Sure, there are a few folks around here who will shit on anything Bungie does, but they are fewer than you might think, and there are FAR FEWER blind haters than seemingly blind fans around here.[/quote] So there are 2 terms that you mention here that I don't want to be intertwined. True Hater and Blind hater. I don't feel there are any 'blind haters' and I'll use your own definition of [i]lacking perception, awareness, or discernment[/i] to describe them. What I do think is that they have been 'blinded' by their rage at Bungie that all they can do is be negative. So what you have left is people just hating on anyone that wants to be positive. Add to this that Bungie's lack of real admining of this place and people are emboldened to be more hurtful because they can get away with it. (Perma-banned people allowed to be on here with alts). The problem that has arisen is something I've said to you before. There are people here who are simply [u]not allowing[/u] others to have a positive opinion. Any positive thread the poster and their opinion is dismissed. Sometimes the "fanboy" thing comes out too which is a whole other problem. This includes people like me. I've always been an informed poster. I post opinion just like anyone but I usually back it up with references or fact. I'm not blind by any means and certainly not a 'fanboy'. This has become the new "Desticle" and it's ridiculous that this derogatory use is being allowed. Blind fan. I don't think there are blind fans either. Again another term drudged up to put down people who maybe simply have different levels of complacency toward the changes. Maybe gaming in general. I'll use my self as an example. I play these games to have fun. It is the #1 attribute that keeps me in a game long term. (sure as with anyone) I also have limited time to play (weekly lets say) so that fun factor needs to continually draw me back in. Within that though is the fact that I love gaming so much that it doesn't take a lot for me to enjoy what I'm doing. If I'm enjoying something I will give developers the benefit of the doubt because it's their game and their vision. For me there really haven't been any changes in D1 that were game breakers for me and the changes coming in D2 I feel with benefit both my playstyle and time I cam put in. This is my feeling and opinion yet I am put down for it. It's not that I don't understand what others are feeling. I do. However there are some I can empathize with and there are others using this rage to lash out constantly. They present their opinions as fact and as the only way people should be thinking. Even you in your eloquence are essentially telling people how they should behave and putting them down for it. At least you're doing it as a suggestion and not a demand. You're not putting people down while telling them to wise up. Opinion vs Judgement. Another misconception of the "Wait for the..." situations. Anyone that said you couldn't form an opinion is wrong. I myself never said that. However what many were saying is that you can't form a judgement without practical experience. No video or write-up should be used for form a judgement so people were asked to wait instead of being judgemental. For me that's mainly what that whole bit is about. Generally speaking people with the negative [u]opinions[/u] were forming judgements and conclusions while people with positive opinion were not and willing to "Wait and see". My suggestion to you and others is to do more than [u]try not to lash-out[/u] at people and just don't. If people are trying to present something with no factual basis then call them out on [u]that[/u]. Not just that they have a positive opinion. But if someone just simply likes the game why is that a problem. I hate to say it but these forums are not the place to start a revolution against pre-ordering or your opinion on shoddy game development or marketing. It's just not. All you're doing is enticing people to argue. It causes more problems simply because it's the wrong venue. "But Logan, this is the Bungie forums why is it wrong?" Because there just aren't enough people here that are accepting of that view to make a difference and not see things your way. All in all though I"m not saying you can voice what you want but I feel in general the voice of the people who feel differently is being shunned and that's not fair either. You get me? :-)

Your post made me blind

Bump

I saw somebody playing Hoizon-Zero Dawn today...wasn't fast enough to get a screenshot tho. Quality is the 1st casualty of a low-expectation society.

Yer just a hater C Law. ALL HAIL BUNGO, OUR LORD AND SAVIOR. Can't wait to open my 33% of a game on September 6th and pay $120 for the rest of it over the next 3 years. Gosh Bungie is just so cool. :')

Destiny 2 will be as much of a mess as Destiny 1. Then we will hear Bnet promising huge improvements for D3. Improvements that WON'T HAPPEN, and the game will be as much of a mess as the first two games. DESTINY is doomed to be garbage. Thank Activision for being behind the series.

After reading the OP, and the extensive dust-up between friends, I have a few thoughts. To CL: I am not a fan of posts that try to address the community at large instead of posts that direct Bungie. Frankly, I see no point in addressing the community at large to explain your stance or point of view as to what your opinions are and why you have them. When it comes to something like this, your words, while good for you, don't "move the needle" in any meaningful way towards effecting any amount of change. It's like telling a "streamer" or "content creator" to stop asking for nerfs. They're going to say what they want. What we need to do is tell Bungie to stop listening to that asshole streamer who keeps asking for nerfs because that shit is bitch. Now, regarding your stance on pre-ordering ect. While I understand what you are saying and why you are saying it. How people spend their money is their own business an no one else's. To me, you should have a deep understanding of a person before you presume to tell them how to spend their money, for whatever reason. Otherwise, it is my opinion that, while as well intentioned as your reasons may be, you are crossing a line and people have a right to be upset at that. To Lost Sols: I actually agree with some of what you are saying below, but you yourself are just as guilty as CL when it comes to posts like these: Addressing the community instead of addressing Bungie. You do this quite often now. While you are a leader in this community, you cross a line when you presume to chastise for people expressing their frustrations with things they don't like. Wether it be your thoughts on the how people are expressing their feedback and the knowledge they have vs. yours... or your more personal experiences with the people who you have interacted with at Bungie. Your experiences are your own and you cannot make people here understand them or sympathize with them by typing words at a screen. They are coming from a different point of view, and if you truly are a leader in this community you should understand that and refrain from engaging it aggressively. Up to you. War Preist: Wazzup Bro? You getting D2? We need a 4th!

You switched teams or what? You're confusing.

Post is so good. I'm giving it twice the support. Hell yea! https://youtu.be/z6i-sl5P66A

The world isn't black and white and all this constant "hater vs fanboy" talk does is the same thing politicians do with their rhetoric. The world is gray. Players love and dislike things about the game just like everyone is both liberal and conservative on any myriad of views. [quote]I repeat: Many of us once loved the game - Destiny was the ONLY game I played for more than 2 years! - but have become so disgusted and disenfranchised by Bungie's handling of D1, AND their many questionable choices already regarding D2, [b]that it can be very hard not to lash-out at those who to us seem, once again, blinded by shiny hype[/b].[/quote] You're asking for tolerance for your anti-Bungie view while stating it's hard not to lash out at people who don't agree with your anti-bungie stance. You're also asking not to be labeled blind while having zero issue insinuating that anyone who doesn't agree with your view is blind. Respect is a two way street both amongst community and between community and devs.

Bump :)

If hater means not a brain dead dumbass and bungie ball licker. I'm a huge -blam!-ing hater. Beej anyone?

What's you view on so called "shit" posters. There are a few in this place that all can name who do spread "hate actual". How can those who celebrate successful game features and those who provide feedback on unsuccessful game elements work together to eliminate toxicity ? Old gallp would value your thoughts on this matter.

I understand what your saying and everyone has the right to there opinion and should voice it weather I agree with it or not. I too at one time thought Bungie to be simply money hungry in D1 with some of the very questionable decisions they made. After that they made changes to the leadership in the company and I think things have improved. Yes they will make mistakes. EVERY COMPANY DOES. Complain when they do and give them a chance to fix those mistakes. Then if they dont fix them never return. You would be unwise to return to a company that you feel refuses to fix what you feel are VERY big mistakes. And now here is the most important part. Does the company LEARN from those mistakes after they fix them or do they keep making the exact same mistakes. If they keep making the exact same mistakes even after they find it is a mistake then why would you go back? That would also be unwise. About your pre-order warning and buying before you see reviews...How does that make any of since? If NOBODY was willing to put there trust or faith in the game and try it then how would anybody be able to give it a review? lol

Bump! Awesome argument! Well said.

I'm giving this another bump, my friend.