I'm fine with weapons both feeling the same in PvP and PvE. There should be a rotating meta, definitely, and if it affects PvE, so be it. ~[i]TheGreatNike[/i]

You can use any Gun in pve and do well.

Why do people care? It's not like PvE is hard.. it's also a lot easier than y1, that should more than make up for the nerfs but of course the forums disregard this because they love crying.

Tldr: The problem with pve now is there is no challenge to it anymore. Guardians are weaker and guns are weaker and we can feel the difference big time. The way they handled pve till now has been such a terrible move. You don't go from having bad ass, challenging boss fights and powerful tools to compete with those challenges (great pve balance), to weakening the challenges of those boss fights because you nerfed the guns and subclasses too much. If you're a year 1 player you're going to feel a significant quality change in the game. Your going to remember "when" all the time. It's stupid. What's really been nerfed in this game is the fun factor and quality of gameplay mechanics for pve. The nerfing of guns and subclasses were just a side note that happened to the fundamental idea of what a legendary guardian should feel like in pve gameplay. Stupid move. How would you fix that now? Don't ever nerf the fun of one part of a game to try and better the other side that has nothing to do with the other. You're going to compromise the fun of one group of people for the sake of the others'. Huh?

It's been 3 months since I last played Destiny. I'm a Year one player, played the beta and am PVE only. I bought this game for PVE as did what I can safely say the majority of gamers. I play the game for the same reason as the one who likes to just shoot stuff. My favorite activity in Destiny is the Legacy Strikes because it's the only way I can truly enjoy Destiny anymore. I load my character up with all my favorite guns and gear and just do strikes, do I gain anything? No it's just fun. My main loadout is Fatebringer, Dry Rot and Gjallarhorn. I switch weapons depending on the strike like Vex Mythoclast for Cabal. Destiny Used to be my escape, just relax and shoot stuff or do a Raid if I'm feeling like a challenge and want to talk to people and be part of a group. I truly believe Bungie shouldn't mainly focus on PVP it really needs to be just a side thing and separate from PVE. Honestly if you want to PVP so much why not just play one of the myriad of shooters out there? Why did you have to ruin this game? What would fix this is just completely separate PVE and PVE. Don't have bounties with PVP requirements for people that only want to PVE like myself. I don't have one of the 3 Exotic Swords and Don't plan to unless there's a way to get them from PVE alone. Edit: I would seriously play Vault and Crota every week with all 3 of my characters in current Destiny even though I have everything from those raids just because it's fun. I did it in House of Wolves and I'd do it now if people would LFG for them.

I don't understand the PvE whiners right now PvP ruined PvE? Pfft. Lets say for some insane miracle bungie unerfs everything, then what? Your main complaint is that pvp ruined pve by nerfing weapons. So what? It's still the same content. Nothing's changed but your weapon damage. So let's get back to the miracle of bungie reversing all the nerfs. You're op now. What's the difference now? You can run a strike slightly faster now? Wooh....so amazing. Btw I believe pve and pvp should be separated. I think you people should stop complaining about how "pvp ruined pve" and instead complain to bungie for not giving you enough pve content to keep you satisfied all year long. [spoiler]noticed how I didn't tell you -blam!-ers to stop complaining. I'm not that stupid. Whether pve or pvp, all of you -blam!-ers complain and whine the same way.[/spoiler]

either way it doesn't matter, things that are op in pvp are also op in pve, the way damage works on a gaurdian is the same way it works on pve enemies just on a smaller scale.

Here's my 2 cents Sols. This game is a LOOT GRINDER, not Halo. IMO, balance shouldn't be a goal. Somebody is simply going to have something better than you have, and we may have to wait for the next DLC for something better to come about. At the very least, I don't think the game should be balanced in the sense that Halo is balanced. Everything just needs to be made as good as it was during its particular meta and let people's choice and map selection drive loadouts. Who cares if times to kill are faster than Halo? The game was more fun and diverse in PVP when kill times were faster on average in Y1. IF, however, they insist that they keep balancing this game like halo, then PVP DOES need to be completely separated from PVE because PVE players just have different, incompatible desires than their PVP counterparts. Balance for PVP is NOT fun for PVE. And the PVE experience is about power progression, which should ultimately culminate in you getting to feel incredibly powerful after you have beaten the endgame - again, like we did in Y1. You should get to feel OP for a time, at least until the next DLC drops. Where I may differentiate from you and most others in this topic is that I don't feel that PVP is ENTIRELY to blame for PVE being dead/irrelevant. I would break it down to assign blame to 55% PVP and 45% PVE players for the reason why PVE is dead and irrelevant. These are just some of the PVE reasons why PVE is dead and irrelevant right now IMO: 1. People who complain the endgame is too hard and excludes casual and solo players. IMO, these players are to blame for the endgame being irrelevant. They don't like the progression structure of Y1 because they weren't able to participate for one reason or another. I understand their complaints, but the game was sold as a social game. Its a MULTIPLAYER game, and you simply can't expect to do EVERYTHING solo. And if you can't put hours and hours and hours into this game, I understand that side of it as well, and I think the best compromise is to make sure EVERYTHING can always stay at relevant light levels. Look at how many casual players were able to go back and do Y1 raids and get all the great Y1 gear now that they are overleveled. They don't even need full teams anymore to do it! So in reality, you ARE able to get all the great stuff - you just aren't able to get it immediately, which IMO is fine. It's entirely unreasonable for someone who puts 2-5 hours of playtime a week into the game to expect to get the same exact loot the guy who has put 25-30 hours of playtime in a week was able to get, and all within the same timeframe. This is the nature of a lootgrinder: People who play more and play longer hours will get better loot and get it faster. There is NOTHING wrong with that. The bottom line though is that in order to take these players interests into account and cater to their needs, the endgame rewards tables were watered down. Raid gear is no longer elite tier as it was in Y1, and all the elite endgame exotics were questified so that nobody was "left out" due to lack of firepower. The end result is that there is very little reason to run/rerun the endgame content in this game, and this has largely eroded the relevance of PVE endgame. 2. People who complain about RNG. I played Y1 and I've heard it all. Yes, EVERYONE (including myself) gets frustrated at RNG at times when it simply won't give you what you want. But it is not a bad thing. If we got everything we wanted too quickly, we would have very little reason to play and replay the content we do have. [i]And we do have so little content.[/i] The reality is that they can't produce enough content to keep us playing for 100's or 1000's of hours on the kind of timelines Bungie is contractually obligated to honor without the content being repetitive. So it is unrealistic to expect them to produce Skyrim like content in a full year production cycle. Therefore, they need to create incentive for us to run and rerun the content we DO have. RNG gave us this incentive. Sure, Y1 RNG was abusive. I get that. But questifying the games elite items was NOT the answer. Guaranteed outcomes took the excitement out of getting something you were grinding so hard to get. And the PVP nerfs for the sake of PVE (and a touch of people complaining that they couldn't get access to content without X item) made sure that when you finally got the item, it wasn't THAT big of a difference maker (I.e., it did NOT reduce grind the way an elite tier item should). They could have simply just increased drop reward percentages from X (say 3%) to something a little more player friendly, like 7-10%. The quest's really aren't a BAD thing in general, but when you questify [b][u]all[/u][/b] of the games best loot, it tends to render other swaths of PVE content irrelevant because you eliminated the incentive to run and rerun that content. 3. LFG Elitism. I hear a lot of complains from people about LFG elitism. And I don't condone elitist behavior on LFG. However, [b]people have the right to exclude others and be picky about who they play with. [/b] If you force Johnny to work with Salley when he doesn't want to, it doesn't make for a great overall experience, especially if they are tasked to do with something extremely difficult. And it was entirely foreseeable that people would have certain requirements for doing specific pieces of content. Again, I have no problems with this. What I do have a problem with is the way Bungie handled this. Instead of providing viable alternatives to LFG, they just nerf the stuff that people are requiring. This has taken a LOT of fun away from endgame, period, because it further reduces elite tier weapons' ability to reduce grind - and therefore, it was a net overall reduction in our power progression. It has also lead to a watering down of the quality of raid gear to the point where raid rewards aren't better than rewards you get elsewhere- in spite of the content being MORE difficult to complete. Instead of feeling like a god after you have completed the raid and gotten all the endgame loot, you feel like none of the loot makes any difference. What Bungie has essentially done is just shifted the requirements people were asking for. So "365 Gally + Level 34" was replaced with "Must be max light, have Spindle/ToM, challenge emblems, etc." It didn't change the elitism, it just changed the requirements. The gear requirements weren't the problem - the ELITISM was the problem. And [b]Bungie is powerless to regulate the ELITISM, [i]but they ARE capable of providing other viable alternatives.[/i] [/b] Really, this is just a roundabout way of saying Bungie nerfed some of our favorite endgame weapons because of elitism, which eroded our power progression in PVE. If there's no sense of power progression, there's no reason to play PVE. That simple. 4. People who complain about other people's [b]PVE loadouts[/b]. In Y1, so many people complained about seeing others with FB + B-Hammer + G-Horn in their loadouts. And I get why BUNGIE would desire diversity, but there is no reason for people to complain about other peoples' PVE loadouts. It simply doesn't affect you if I do strikes, patrol, etc. with my own people using what I want. if your stuck in a strike with someone using that loadout, simply leave if you object (you would know what they were using early on in the process anyways). But that isn't what happened. People complained, and elemental primaries were removed, and a lot of the guns people complained about seeing frequently were nerfed (B-hammer, Icebreaker, G-horn, etc.). To sum things up (That's [b]TL;DR[/b] for you non-readers), while I still believe PVP changes bear the brunt of the blame as to why PVE is less exciting and largely irrelevant, I think that is too simplistic and it overlooks the fact that a number of PVE guns were nerfed for PVE reasons or reasons related exclusively to PVE.

Seperate...but this will never happen...they (bungie) can't even fix the pvp side of things, so for them to be able to fix both sides (pve & pvp)....impossible

Simply put...pvp was [b][u]supposed[/u][/b] to be a side activity. Pve was supposed to be the main focus. Remember...? Like the e3 demo? Working as a team, having fun and getting kick ass loot? All went to shit and catered to pvp crybabies demanding Balance and adding sweaty tryhard trials. Destiny 2 better lean away from the pvp and put more emphasis on pve. Want pvp? Go play the other various pvp games (cod/battlefield/overwatch/etc), make destiny 2 what destiny 1 should have been

PvP balance updates have never really effected my PvE enjoyment. Who really cares if it takes a bullet or two more to kill a bot anyways.

Yeah, I'm not feeling it. PvE was easy back then, and it's still easy now.

Honestly, I'm tired of this notion, in a way. I realize the Destiny YouTube community is dying and needs to sell copy, but this topic is simply inflammatory. I see a lot of posts on separating the two systems, and how PVE is in such a bad state now because of it. I don't understand what the major complaint is, frankly. Call me what you wish, but I do a lot of both. PVE hasn't been a challenge since I finished my first raid, honestly. What's so hard about anything? Is that strike boss really challenging you? Is the WotM raid really that tough, overall? Not from what I've been hearing about it, which is that it's fun, interesting, short, and lacking in higher-level challenge. I mean, it's a repetitive system; once you've learned to do something, you should always be able to do it again, within reason. It doesn't change or adapt, or throw anything terribly new at you. And PvE allows the full range of weapon choices to succeed. Yes, some are more effective than others, and a few are junk no matter what, but you can play any activity with 85% of the guns out there, and still pull through. Try that in even mildly sweaty PvP and see what happens to you. I just can't see how PvE can get that challenging. You flinch while sniping now? So...time your shots or reposition. I snipe ultra's through flinch all the time, because it's simply not that hard. Abilities got changed? Adapt or use something different. It's a predictable set of repetitive encounters that I'm sure most of us have memorized by now, what is there to get all bent about? It's all easy to middling difficulty, and there is no right or wrong way to do it. PvP is a tiny little enclosed system though; there are things that will simply get you killed for even trying them. If something is a tiny bit off in PvE with one ability or weapon, meh, just choose something else. If the same is true in PvP, there's nowhere to run from it. Clever Dragon is running rampant? Either get a tier 1 hand cannon, a Clever Dragon of your own, a good warrioring setup, or lose 75% of your even 1's. That's it, end of list. Hopefully Bungie will bless you with a change that doesn't break too many other things in the process (but don't count on it). I wish I had as few issues in my PvP play environment as I do in my PvE one, I'd be all set. It probably seems like I'm saying 'Shut up and stop complaining', but in a way, what else am I supposed to do? I see a lot of people in the PvE community parroting this who might have tried PvP a few times, didn't like it, left, and only come back when there is something they really need / want up for grabs. That doesn't really impart the understanding of the systematic issues at large that the PvP players are complaining about, and why they are actually pretty serious ones, sometimes game breaking. The irony is, that's just what the very PvP nerf herders that a section of the PvE population thinks all Crucible players are (we're not) do all the time; complain about something they don't really understand (see sniper rifles, shoulder charge, shadestep, throwing knives, tripmines, etc.). So in a way, people who are complaining about the people who complain about things are exactly like the people they are complaining about. Neat. I expect flames and downvotes from melting special snowflakes (because my feeling matter, but theirs matter more), and I don't care. I just hope a few people will actually read and start to try thinking of it from the other half of the communities perspective. PvP players aren't selfish, trying to ruin your game, or inconsiderate, but they'd like to have a good experience too. Bungie will never separate the systems in D1 during it's normal life cycle, so we have to learn to live with it and make the best of it.

Pve was ruined when they made more ways to reach max light... There should only be two ways. Raid and trials. You can beat the raid with all blue gear and all blue weapons. As well as any other pve activity. I say make pve much harder. Its so ez it's boring.