So you to clarify. You are a competitive multiplayer player who plays Destiny solely for its competitive multiplayer and if you have to pve for an item you'll only pve so that you can perform better in competitive multiplayer? If yes. Why did you choose a pve loot grinder for your competitive multiplayer? Why would you not choose a game that has 60fps, dedicated servers, private matches, ranking systems, and a leader board? Would you also play border lands solely for its PvP if it were to offer it?

[quote]Would you also play border lands solely for its PvP if it were to offer it?[/quote]Borderlands does offer PvP, it's just really really bad because they didn't think people would want to PvP a lot. I chose Destiny because I like the idea of having endless possibilities of loadouts, instead of being forced into a generic shotgun, auto rifle, sniper class like some games offer. Loot grinders have some of the funnest PvP because of exactly that, they are loot grinders. You could face someone with the newest gun that has the highest damage stat, but if you're using things that work together that you gathered over the course of playing, you could easily deal more damage with a weaker gun. Not sure if you are familiar with Borderlands 2 or not, but I played a Zer0, and spec'd him to be an infinity pistol-er. All my gear and stat points went into things that would make my pistol hit more or faster, increased damage when the clip is low, etc. Per trigger pull, there was lots of guns that out damaged me, but sustain damage I was un-matchable. For any mob with lots of health, I was the go to DD and other people would just protect me and let me sit there and kill the boss. Would that have been fun in PvP? Probably not as much fun as some other possibilities in that game, but the point is, being able to explore what is strong and find new things that make seemingly weak skills incredibly OP is what is fun about Loot grinders, and that always keeps PvP in games like that fresh.

Actually I thought border lands 2 didn't have any PvP. At least it didn't when I played it. The difference in other loot grinder games. Wow for example. Weapons are just stat sticks. That sword acts the same as that hammer. Stats are the difference. It's easier to balance based off of this. Destiny is much different each weapon is more than a stat stick. There's range, how the sights work, aim assist, etc. The combinations of what needs balance is an absolute nightmare. Preload out games balance better because those 1-10 guns are the only guns that need to be balanced for. Destiny PvP can be fun. I did enjoy sniping. However I don't want the last word forced in my hand if I want to complete a quest. Or a sword hilt. If I'm going to PvP I want to do it in a fashion I enjoy, not how Bungie tells me.

The "PvP" was just a duel, 1v1 anywhere in the map, you just walked up to someone and requested a duel. If they accepted, there was a 3-5 second countdown then you could fight for 5 mins or until someone died. It was hardly worthy of the title of "PvP" as there was no specific lobbies or groups bigger than 1v1. I think the trick that makes games like that fun are the fact that there is no balance. Things are so unbalanced everyone is pseudo-balanced. Some combos work better than others, but then there will always be combos that work better than the previous. There is no, Thorn is the best gun, because there will be someone who finds out that if you use a ALR96-40 Overkill, while you have an exotic shader that increases Auto attack damage by 15%, you can beat out Thorns. And when people switch to all ALR96-40 Overkill's the next person comes along with a Rising Tide AR0 which when you are hitting shots from behind you deal 50% more damage, which blows up ALR96-40 Overkill users. Loot grinders don't settle into a meta like Destiny does, simply because they don't try to make everything even, they try to make it so people don't get 1 shot and that's about it. That is what I expected Destiny to be when I bought it. PvE grind to get unique things that would be awesome in PvP until someone got something better, then go back and grind something else to get a different combo of items that could compete even better in PvP.

They definitely failed at that. Problem is that Destiny's PvP is to divisive to have the quests require it like they currently do. If a quest, for example, required you to get X kills adjacent to a zone you control or the enemy controls that would be world's better than get X KDR with specific weapon. One enhances the PvP experience by guiding you toward a goal that aims towards winning. The other requires you to abandon all game type goals and play like a camping scared rabbit. Even PvP players are suffering from the current quests. If you PvP and are trying to win but your team has 3 people swinging hilts do you think you're going to have a good time? No you just had 3 players ruin your experience because they were coerced into the queue by loot and then forced to play a specific non-productive style.

This. I had people whining at me for "ruining" their PvP games doing those stupid pvp portions for the weekly weapon tests. I told them to take it up with Bungie and that they could embrace the suck. If I have to go in there and get 23 left handed headshots while standing on one foot...then the PvP babies better get ready to take all of the zones by themselves. Figure I'll pull up a piece of real estate and wait for someone to wander by.