As a collector of fine weapons and someone who's wasted thousands of hours in this game, I don't think the choice should be made for me. If I want to use my Zombie Apocalypse machine gun I've had since launch for the rest of my Guardian's life I should be able to. This game is supposed to be about making your character into who you want them to be, into a "legend" as they say. Well maybe my heroine's arsenal includes some "legendary" vintage guns that she's kept with her for well over a year, that she worked her ass off to get? Of course I don't want to use the same guns for "ten years" as everyone likes to say but if I want to take some of my vintage guns with me along for the journey they should still be viable. I want a mix of old and new, I don't want to just suddenly be on par with everyone who's just joining for year two. I want those sick classic guns that the newbies are going to see and make them want to go back and do the Vault of glass or Crota's end. I want people to see my character as I want her to be seen, wearing scuzzy Hive gear from an old antiquated raid that I mastered because that was my choice, that's how I chose to look. It seems counterproductive for Destiny to take year one players on this roller-coaster of DLC screw-ups, literally screwing people over with extra unnecessary upgrade paths, overcomplicated material systems, having to double or triple level up some guns just to keep them relevant, then have them realize how much they mean to us and FINALLY do right and allow us to "ascend" the stuff we love only to turn around and take a big dump on that ideal in year 2. Plus as far as the "more variety" argument, I'd say wiping out half of the guns in-game is going to reduce the variety, just like every DLC has wiped out entire vendor sets of gear. It feels like they just realized they messed up some stuff and they want to wipe all old guns from the record so they can start over, there's no actual reason behind it otherwise. I'm excited for new gear but if they intended to make "year two" a whole new beast they should have just made an entirely new game instead of gutting out what people have enjoyed since launch. It feels like Bungie is so disconnected from their community anymore, honestly. This game has been a total WRECK since launch, things have changed DRASTICALLY every DLC and update, it has changed so much that come September it isn't even going to be the same thing we bought last year. At times it feels as though they don't know what they're doing, they're making it up as they go along. [/Endrant]

You might not under but.... [b]I HAVE NO LIFE[/b] So I put over 1000hours into this game. I grinded hard and countless hours just to have everything go obsolete in 3 months? I didn't know gear and guns were computer parts.

I don't mind them not being upgradeable as long as they give us enough vault space to hang onto them. I'll still want to use certain guns in crucible. I'll still want to be able to dust off an old friend and use it from time to time.

I'm mad because I've assembled an arsenal of elemental primaries and got x3 of the best ones (fatebringer, VoC) for all my characters and now its gone to waste. If Bungie intoduces more burn weapons like they did in trials I'd be more on board with their decision.

This post is old. Let it die. Thank you

People will tell you it's taking away variety and that they need to make better guns, but the truth is this: 1. If they make better guns than what VoG and the few ce ones everyone uses it will make everything too easy and pointless. 2. As for the variety part, they say their will be no variety, but what they really want is to use only one weapon the whole time even though there will be variety.

I agree with you. I have Fatebringer, VoC and other year one raid weapons. I think that people are getting bent out of shape over this, and it's silly. Here is my reasoning. We haven't had a chance to see our use the new weapons to see how they compare to the year one weapons that everyone is so in love with. So how can we know that there aren't better weapons coming? Hakuna your ta-tas, guardians. Give TTK a fair amount of time for leveling and getting gear, and then compare it to the year one weapons.

Destiny isn't a tab target MMO. It's core gameplay is FPS. You change the weapons in a tab target MMO, and the most that changes is looks. Else the rest of it is dps shifts etc etc, its stats. Weapons don't have a 'feel'. Destiny has weapons that can be distinguished by something other than raw DPS values. Guns can straight up just feel different. So, this isn't quite the same as other MMOs in that sense.  On top of that, the 'do you want to be married to one gun for 10 years' argument is a crock of shit. I want them to make guns that I enjoy using, and if they can't beat something they made 9 years ago, they've failed to significantly advance the design of the game as well as failing to create new enjoyable weapons. Raw dps disadvantage is a very dumb way to do this. Never mind the bait and switch with etheric light.  I have little doubt this will get overturned with enough bitching.

So when I was at the University of Iowa, several people, including myself, bought Nerf guns for impromptu battles in the hallways when we had free time. Mostly this was all good, clean fun, except for two of the guys down the hall, my roommate, and I. We all thought, rightfully so, that factory built Nerf guns are bullshit. They’re weak, darts are too -blam!-ing light, the barrels cause too much friction, which makes them inaccurate and slow, and you have to re-cock them after each shot. That’s some -blam!-ing bullshit right there. So we fixed it. We bought new, higher tensile springs. We bought PVC pipe and lubricant. We put BBs in the tips of our darts, and my roommate and even put in a second spring to automatically cock the gun,essentially turning them from bolt action pieces of shit into semi-automatic friendship-ruiners. So when I moved back to Chicago, and into the apartment, I obviously brought my Nerf guns (my roommate gave me his when we moved out), and I obviously attacked my roommates the first opportunity I had. OBVIOUSLY this led to everyone buying Nerf guns and modifying the shit out of them. However, some of us were terrible shots, so certain measures had to be taken to make it possible for them to keep up. Brad practiced in his room every day, Josh built an extended clip for his gun, and Kyle bought the -blam!-ing Vulcan and built a 600 dart belt for it because he decidedaiming is for people who can’t fire 6 darts a second (he modded it for doubled firing speed using a small car battery and replaced mechanics). And then there was Paul. Paul was -blam!-ing terrible. Like almost so bad it couldn’t be for real. He once tried to ambush me coming around a corner from 2 feet away and missed by a good 6-7 inches. He literally could have slapped me and he missed. Whatever moving on. So Paul decides to solve his aim problems in the most Paul way possible: online shopping. He bought 500 foam pellets for a marshmallow gun, two dozen foam discs, and a mother-blam!-ing t-shirt cannon. You see, Paul, much like Kyle, decided aiming was for lames. So he would pour foam pellets into the cannon until it was half full, slip in a disc to keep them from falling out, then shotgun people in the face. I was his first victim and boy let me tell you that shit is terrifying. So Paul became the big dog in the house during Nerf battles, and the rest of us found ourselves unable to compete. So we all escalated in our own insane ways. Eric and I, the former champions, modified our guns to fire faster, Brad added an extended magazine to his gun, Kyle built a harness so that he could shoot his -blam!-ing stupid -blam!-ing bullet-storm piece of shit while moving. Josh booby-trapped various parts of our apartment. Suddenly, we were all better than Paul again, so he decided to step his game up. He started making paper cartridges that would explode open once fired. Suddenly, he could actually fire multiple times a minute, which meant once again, he was at the top. It didn’t help that our reluctance to shoot back out of fear of getting shot was allowing him to take his time, therefore drastically improving his aim. So we stepped up again. I smooth out the cocking mechanism on my guns, improving my firing speed even faster. Eric adds more weight to his darts, making them heavier and faster and much more painful. Kyle buys a bigger battery, newer parts, and he perfects his belts, which increases his firing speed to 12 darts a second. So Paul steps up to take advantage of his improved aim and buys something called a Pucker Chucker which basically is a t-shirt cannon except it shoots foam pucks. This means we can’t just shoot at him from the other side of the apartment anymore, so we all step up again. I modify the rail on top to make aiming easier, Eric modifies his grip to make it more comfortable, Kyle and brad modify their barrels to make them more accurate, and Josh jumps on board the crazy train and builds a goddamn under barrel cherry bomb launcher. And this is where shit starts to spiral out of control. Brad starts making smoke grenades, Kyle solves his weakness against close quarters combat by using his battery to create a cattle prod to keep people back. Eric breaks the head off an old golf club to use the shaft as a weapon, I put pins in the tips of all of my darts, and Paul realizes thatthe Pucker Chucker can also shoot real hockey pucks after he steals my bucket of pucks from my room. So it escalated a couple more steps but I’m going to leave them out partially out of a desire to keep moving forward and partially out of shameanywhoozle when we pull out our final contraptions and modifications that day we shifted from light-hearted fun that was a bit too far to literally combat. Josh had a sword. I don’t know where he got it from. That battle was terrifying. Our normal fights were like an hour, two hours tops, then we would clean up, get together in the living room with some beers, and laugh about what happened. Honestly we should have known this was going to happen because when we did this after our previous fight, the laughter was less “haha remember when I shot Josh in the butthole? Classic.” and more “haha remember when I missed your face with that puck? Next time I won’t miss.” So we somehow get into a battle again and this time things go south quickly which is bound to happen when you have a dude in a speedo swinging a sword around while rolling fireworks down the hall. It was literally chaos. There were fireworks and homemade smoke grenades and Kyle made the electrical current in his cattle prod too strong and it was too close to the muzzle of his Vulcan so every few seconds you would just see a flaming dart wiz past and I built a -blam!-ing flamethrower and I don’t know what the -blam!- is going on so I’m just firing it in the general direction of Josh to keep him the -blam!- away. At some point Brad barricades himself in his room, and so we all run back to our rooms and hide. We do this for three days. THREE DAYS. I missed classes. We all had junk food in our rooms, and private bathrooms, so that’s what we sustained ourselves on for three -blam!-ing days. I, however, try to eat healthy, so I ran out of food almost immediately. After not eating for a day and a half, with food literally less than 50 feet from where I was hiding, I decided that I was willing to risk a trip to the kitchen. So here’s something important about our apartment: I was the only one who knew how to cook. I had tried to teach the others, but all that had accomplished was several kitchen fires. This meant when Eric also ran out of food, he knew the only way to get a meal was to make peace with me. So he had snuck down the hall to my door, intent on asking me for help. I did not know he was there. So when I opened the door and saw a crouching figure in the shadows nearby, I assumed, I think justifiably, that it was the guy who had been swinging a sword at all of us the last time I saw him. So I pulled the trigger on my homemade flamethrower, only to see Eric’s horrified face illuminated by the flames for a split second before they hit his torso. Luckily, I was using a scavenged fuel source (computer screen cleaner), so the flames were weak, but still fire is fire and fire -blam!-ing hurts. So Eric is rolling on the floor with first degree burns on his stomach and chest, and I’m freaking out because Eric is my friend and I just set him on fire, so there is now a lot of screaming coming from the hall. Now, to lighten the mood slightly, here’s a personality test. You hear the sounds of fire, followed shortly by screaming coming from the hall outside your room. What do you do? Do you assume the crazy sword guy has finally snapped and is going to kill you all, so you climb out the window onto the fire escape?Congratulations, you’re Brad. Do you hear the cries of pain and grab a first aid kit before sprinting into the hall to help? Hey! You’re Kyle! Do you hear the flames so you sprint into the kitchen to grab the fire extinguisher? You are Paul. Do you come out into the hall to see what’s going on but also bring your sword just in case you have to stab someone? You are Josh and also mentally unstable please put your sword away. So Kyle comes out and he and I start administering first aid and luckily through a combination of the weakness of my fuel source, how quickly I stopped the flames, and the quickness of our treatments, Eric only gets some first degree burns on his torso. Paul puts out the last of the flames, Josh decides he doesn’t want to stab anyone today, and Brad decides that the lack of screaming is a good thing and he comes inside. I spend the next hour apologizing profusely while cooking everyone dinner, and we decide that hey we should probably have some rules for our Nerf fights to prevent this from ever happening again. So we all eat, we establish rules about modifications and ammunition, and at the end of it all, we grab some beers, head into the living room, and tell Josh he needs to get rid of the sword seriously dude where did you get that from?

I've been playing MMOs for coming on 13 years, it doesn't mean I can't disagree with this plan. Essentially here's my issue - Destiny seems to be able to be an MMO when it suits it, and an FPS game when it suits it. People say the content is grindy, and a lot of people will reply it's an MMO, and that's just MMO gameplay. People say there is very little content compared to most MMOs and all of a sudden it's an FPS again, held up against the standard of a yearly $60 cod release.  If Destiny uses standard MMO procedures, then in the same breath it needs to provide standard MMO levels of content. If Destiny is not a standard MMO, then we need to apply a bit of sense to how we treat gear, understand that unlike a standard MMO, weapons are not simply some banal stat sheet, but rather guns with their own characteristics and quirks and play styles. If guns are overwhelmingly dominant, we balance them. This isn't hard stuff, it's just half of Bungie seem to have pretty much no clue.  I love the game, but -blam!- me is it mismanaged. So give me a good reason to use the new gun. Make the new content more reliant on perks not in older perk pools, but don't straight up make my gun a lame duck. Now I can grind mindlessly to find and upgrade my new weapon.

They could just make the new guns not suck so bad that people want to use the same guns forever and allow those same guns to progress as well.

I don't agree at all with this post, the ignorance in a lot of people trying to back up a fail gaming model is amazing. apparently player choice and community consideration wasn't factored in this when designing it all. Yes the game doesn't consist of only exotics, and the legendary guns becoming obsolete to most isnt a big deal, however it is to a lot of players too, as gamer's we should have a choice, not one of that in which involves us paying 40$ to have that option taken away. I get the whole "Having to move on, straying away from the old" but by the looks of it, it feels rushed, and not planned through. Yes no one wants to use the Gjallarhorn for year 3-4 or the fate bringer, people want new things, but taking away, what people like, and forcing change apparently is the way to go. Targerted nerfs such as the Gjallarhorn, till this day i don't understand, they said at gamescon 2015 ign interview to Frank "We want players to use other guns in the heavy category, not just the gjallarhorn for everything" Now please tell me this, with all the "new" guns coming out, i can guarantee a new "Gjallarhorn" weapon will be available, meaning the overall opness of a weapon, what than? Nerf that? With the new array of weapons coming out, i can bet only 2 will be favored, over everything and the same problem will arise. Change brings about new things, new outlook yes, but with the game state so far, i can only see a new "Gjallarhorn" or Fatebringer being used to do things, Example Fate of all fools, for those who watched the PVP video, that thing shreds through people instantly, landing precision shots makes the time to kill in pvp non existent, i can see about 5 nerfs coming for that already. So to those people who think we're just complaining to complain, we're not, cause the issues with the new guns will arise, people will cry for nerfs, because they don't have a certain gun, more issues will come yet again. Cycle, rinse, repeat. Also those who paid 40$ on day one for the season pass, Hey guys guess what? now its useless, cause the majority of the guns you got from the content is either being nerfed or becoming obsolete. YAY !.... P.S all those hours, upon hours spent grinding is now wasted, those people playing for 800+ hours to finally get a Gjallarhorn or Ice Breaker or Fate Bringer, etc only to have it be nerfed or the legendary gun case, obsolete.

Being FORCED to do something in any game is never a good thing.

...and consider this. You happen to be one of the unlucky few that has been victimized by the average RNG logic of this game, and you get that weapon you waited for soooooo long...right before this new expansion (or whatever it is). Get where I am going? Pretty lame, huh?