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Edited by sergeantsnipes05: 1/5/2016 2:41:44 AM
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Shutting down the Sniper Rifle misconceptions:

Since 2.0 dropped the bitching about sniper rifles has steadily increased to where we are now and every other post has turned into a nerf snipers thread. Even though there have been countless posts on those threads explaining how aim assist actually functions, the misconception that the bullets curve, magically track players heads, etc. refuses to go away. Planet Destiny did a video about this months ago that has been put on tons of these posts. Here are the stats for all the popular sniper rifles from year one in the 31 impact class from planet destiny’s database: [b]Dark Below: [/b] My personal favorite sniper rifle in destiny the[b] LDR 5001[/b] [b]Primary stats with min/max[/b] RoF: 19 19/19 Impact: 31 31/32 Range: 68 60/93 Stability: 52 44/86 Reload: 60 60/73 [b]Secondary Stats with min/max[/b] Aim assistance: 49 39/79 Equip speed: 43 28/63 Recoil direction: 79 79/79 Zoom: 40 40/95 [b]Longbow Synthesis[/b] [b]Primary stats with min/max[/b] (RoF and impact will be ignored for the rest): Range: 68 58/91 Stability: 56 47/90 Reload: 65 65/78 [b]Secondary Stats with min/max:[/b] Aim assistance: 53 43/83 Equip speed: 50 35/70 Recoil direction: 59 59/59 Zoom: 40/95 [b]House of Wolves:[/b] [b]Her Benevolence[/b] [b]Primary stats with min/max:[/b] Range: 66 50/96 Stability: 46 21/97 Reload: 54 40/81 [b]Secondary stats with min/max:[/b] Aim assistance: 40 30/70 Equid speed: 35 30/85 Recoil direction: 72 72/72 Zoom: 40 40/95 [b]Shadow of Veils[/b] [b]Primary stats with min/max:[/b] Range: 74 74/82 Stability: 41 37/65 Reload: 59 59/69 [b]Secondary stats with min/max:[/b] Aim assistance: 69 69/84 Equip speed: 51 51/56 Recoil direction: 70 Zoom: 40 [b]The Taken King:[/b] [b]Thousand Yard Stare [/b] [b]Primary Stats with min/max:[/b] Range: 66 50/96 Stability: 57 31/100 Reload: 62 43/97 [b]Secondary stats with min/max:[/b] Aim assistance: 56 31/71 Equip speed: 54 39/104(wat) [b]Eirene RR4[/b] (not technically in the 31 impact class as it has 34) [b]Primary Stats with min/max:[/b] Range: 76 66/100 Stability: 44 27/78 Reload: 57 43/85 [b]Secondary stats with min/max:[/b] Aim assistance: 21 21/21 Equip speed: 51 46/101 [b]Stillpiercer [/b] [b]Primary stats: [/b] Range: 66 56/70 Stability: 57 46/57 Reload: 65 65/93 [b]Secondary stats:[/b] Aim assistance: 51 41/56 Equip speed: 59/59 Zoom: 40 40/45 Now after being presented with the numerical values for all the popular legendary sniper rifles in that RoF impact class over year one and year two, you can see that thousand yard stare is right around where all the other popular sniper rifles in terms of Aim assistance and stats. Players are looking for a scapegoat for to blame for the sudden increase in snipers and they are blaming the wrong thing. While the thousand yard stare is popular since everyone got a well rolled one from a quest line, of course players are going to be using it. If re rolling was still a thing we would see everyone running one with shortgaze, performance bonus or unflinching, and hidden hand like they were with Her Benevolence during HoW. The increase in snipers is because the primary weapon type has shifted from hand cannons to pulse and scout rifles, favoring longer engagement distances. Shotguns, while some would argue they have been nerfed into the ground, are still very very good, especially the high impact class shotguns, which everyone also got a perfectly rolled shotgun from a quest line, at a higher light level in fact. Players getting sniped need to take into account that the meta and weapons usage has changed in the past few months. You can no longer basically go on auto pilot and get a ton of kills with blink shot gun and actually need to use some form of intelligence and map awareness in order to be effective with shotguns, as it should have always been. Use flanking routes, blink, shadestep, titan skating, sliding, etc. to get around or past sight lines. A lot of players still scarred from the Thorn and Last Word days are equating over use with overpowered. 1000 yard stare has a flat 1.0 k/d among equipped players. In other words Bungie’s data shows it is very balanced. MIDA too has fallen victim to the cries for nerf simply because a lot of players are using it when it isn’t overpowered at all. Now if you are going to complain about sniper rifles, there are two things that could be argued are actually worthy of your tears. 1. Special ammo is too frequent still and allows players to get most of their kills using special ammo. I’m personally convinced that a good amount of players in the crucible have no idea what a primary weapon is 2. Players are using sniper rifles to go for body shots. As the TTK has risen with the hand cannon nerfs to closer to 1 second it allows time for players to get the two body shots off with high impact snipers, something that was harder to do in year one. Decrease the body shot damage in the CRUCIBLE only to compensate for the increase in TTK. a. For some context 1kys was 22.5% of ToO kills this weekend and only 41.72% of those were head shot kills. b. Decreasing the body damage in the CRUCIBLE would promote and reward those of us that have high precision kill percentages and would increase the skill gap on sniper rifles a bit more. [b]TL:DR Complaining about 1KYS and aim assist is the wrong thing to complain about, if there is anything to complain about at all.[/b]
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  • The Eirene is actually in the 31 impact class. The stat bar is glitched.

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  • [quote]2. Players are using sniper rifles to go for body shots. As the TTK has risen with the hand cannon nerfs to closer to 1 second it allows time for players to get the two body shots off with high impact snipers, something that was harder to do in year one. Decrease the body shot damage in the CRUCIBLE only to compensate for the increase in TTK. a. For some context 1kys was 22.5% of ToO kills this weekend and only 41.72% of those were head shot kills. b. Decreasing the body damage in the CRUCIBLE would promote and reward those of us that have high precision kill percentages and would increase the skill gap on sniper rifles a bit more. [/quote] if you did lower the damage on body shots then it wouldn't reward good team play as much and there would be no point in using a low rof sniper except trials for rez-sniping. Everyone would just switch from 1kys to the new ib sniper and then people would call for a nerf on that sniper

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    • Edited by Rokon: 1/6/2016 7:55:07 AM
      People are complaining about Snipers because bandwagon. Best way to combat all of the complaining is to limit or remove starting ammunition, and possibly extend the time or reduce the ammo obtained by opening Special Ammo packages. Encourages Primary play, also encourages careful Sniper/Shotgun play where every shot counts.

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      • Completely agree. Thread OP's would rather find something to blame rather than understand what adjustments they need to make to their game. Well done guardian.

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      • They should really add flinch when getting shot while using a sniper, It makes me mad when i shoot the guy in the face but yet kills me without being flinched once. This is how snipers should be like, like in real life

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        • Get rid of the -blam!-ing aim assist and that will fix the shit. The video I seen the other day on her of NLB was total shit with that assist.

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        • I blame the trigger fingers. Sometimes they are quicker than me

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        • Everyone spawns with 1 full clip of special AT BEGINNING OF GAME Take away HEAVY ROUND replace with SPECIAL ROUND -last special box spawns a game tied 4-4 Special box will be put in a neutral location, an equal opportunity for both team My opinion

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          • Destiny vines new videos uploaded everyday https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMlOwXr1K_JR6fZzvKzeXvs8TJHtpCRHK

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          • PEOPLE THAT ARE USING KEYBOARD AND MOUSES ON PS4/xbox are the problem

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          • Edited by Hetchi: 1/6/2016 6:25:19 AM
            Signed. Snipers have always been the same since the beta. Edit: Overused doesn't equate to overpowered. That goes to all the people crying for nerfs. Especially the Mida.

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          • None of this changes the fact that snipers are currently one of the most used guns in the game because not much can compete with them! If everyone is using the same gun then something is wrong, so say bungie! Bring the nerfs! lol

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            • There's nothing else to complain about. That's all ppl talk about this game...nerf nerf nerf

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            • You also forget to mention that the insanely fast time to kill on a gun like thorn made it easier to combat snipers in pre ttk! If you could get two headshots with thorn while they were peaking for their snipe you could win the encounter. If you teamshotted a sniper with thorn you could outgun him easily! That is another huge factor in why snipers are a more lethal force!

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            • I keep on saying this the real problem with snipers is how easy they are to aim, there's a reason so many other games have scope sway.

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            • Lol These sniper posts are getting old Shotguns got what was coming Snipes always have and always will perform exactly how they were meant to From a distance and rewards skilled use

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                Great post, now i understand why the change from her benevolence to 1k stare was so easy as they had about the same stats

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              • I get everything you said, but you can't deny the fact that snipers are now more lethal than ever and easier to use (get head shots).

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                • I'm not a good sniper. I usually start with a body shot and follow with something else like a sidearm.

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                  • Thank you for the great post. Unfortunately there are too many idiots on here. Thanks nonetheless.

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                  • So would people be happy with Snipers if the maps were bigger? Example, if they made PvP maps the size of a small outpost on Planetside 2 and they added in scope sway and bullet physics. Would that make people stop complaining about snipers because now aiming and skill is involved?

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                  • You have common sense. That is rare. Very well put and I run a shotgun

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                  • Do people not get what OP means? It means that something (generally and in this case weapons) are substantially better at killing for any range of players. Basically a high kill weapon that is easy to use. Sure there are plenty of ways to counter these weapons using varying tactics but these generally require more skill to execute when compared to the skill needed to use the OP weapons. To counter a sniper you need to know flank routes, have map awareness, fight your way to the sniper, etc.. In turn snipers require much less skill. You need little map knowledge, less awareness to your surroundings, and honestly it's just too easy to look down a long sightline and pop some heads as soon as someone rounds a corner. This is because aim assist increases the head hitbox, and slows and slightly "tracks" the enemy. Not to mention there is no weapon sway so "hard scoping" is even easier. Shotguns are only easier to use in the sense that aiming isn't as hard to do, but this is with every single game that has shotguns. The thing that makes shotgunning harder is the level of map knowledge and awareness needed to get close to someone. You also need to know how to maneuver you charcter in a efficient way in order to cross sightlines and aid in getting up close and personal. Just remember that shotgunning is also much riskier. The reason shotguns always seemed OP was because of how extremely easy blink was to use and how effective it was at closing distances safely and quickly and also to get you out of tough spots. But also to add to their appearance of OP was that many players were using them and even though they may lack all the skills needed to make a shotgun effective, they could usually rush in and at the very least trade kill or get a kill and be killed soon after. But this is just my take on things, and I'm not supporting shotgun usage just using it as an example.

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                  • Well put!

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                  • [quote]The increase in snipers is because the primary weapon type has shifted from hand cannons to pulse and scout rifles, favoring longer engagement distances.[/quote] You actually have this backwards. Long range engagements only became the norm when sniper rifles became the overwhelming favorite. Before the 2.1 update, pulse rifles could counter sniper rifles to an extent. Since the 2.1 update, scout rifles have seen an increase especially since Xur sold MIDA. Just look at the data: https://guardian.gg/en/weapon-stats?platform=2&start=2015-10-29&end=2016-01-04&mode=14&activity=0 Even at the peak of pulse rifles popularity, sniper rifles still outperformed them based on percentage of kills. Only Shotguns were able to keep relative pace with sniper rifles. Clearly, Special weapons are dominant factors in ToO. Bungie has hit Shotguns time and time again trying to reign in their lethality but never really addressed the biggest problem with the long range, high impact archetype. They've tried to slow down shotgunners but good players know how to close the gap and finish which is why they are still performing well. Sniper rifles on the other hand received none of the nerfs in handling or performance that shotguns have. Why? Why can players quickdraw, aim, and fire off a precision shot in a split second? There is no handling penalty to sniper rifles. They can be getting shot in the face and still score precision kills with ease. Or strafe from behind cover while ADS and accurately get a head shot with zero risk of a primary killing them in the split second they poke their head out. I agree that the issue of a particular sniper rifle or aim assist is made too much of. For me it's how easy that sniper rifles handle, ADS, score hits while getting shot, and their unrealistic stability while moving or standing and ADS that gives them a huge advantage.

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                    • Edited by l cohen l: 1/5/2016 10:05:53 PM
                      There's also the issue of Flinch. Or lack of when being fired upon from the front. If you listen to last weeks Crucible Radio episode, Jon & Sage from Bungie were talking about how Flinch works. If you're being shot from head-on, the Flinch on your screen appears minimal, where as if you're being shot from the side, your screen shakes a lot more. They said that the idea behind it was to be an indication of where you're being shot from. If your screen bounces slightly to the left, you're being shot from the right, for example. Now, where I can see that that's a good idea on paper, the obvious flaw is when your putting DPS on someone from head on and they simply scope in and get the headshot. If this happened every now and then, I'd tip my hat to them being a -blam!-ing boss with a Sniper. But when it happens 9/10, you know there's a balance problem. Mix that lack of Flinch from head-on fire with the Aim Assist, that's a part of the misconception that Snipers are OP! Flinch from head-on fire, in my opinion, should cause random directional shunts. This would require skill to control and obviously this would be subject to what weapon is firing at you. ARs would cause less severe shunts but more of them, HCs and Scouts would shunt more etc.

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