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Edited by Dano2point0:
2/20/2018 10:07:39 PM
37
Invisibility for Nightstalker's Way of the Trapper is a perfectly designed nightmare
[url=https://guardian.gg/2/class-stats?platform=console&mode=5&start=2018-02-13&end=2018-02-20]Stats [/url] clearly show the disparity between subclasses and the sole reason for this in my opinion is due to Nightstalker invisibility. A good comparison to the current state of pvp is that it is Inferno rules for all non-Nightstalkers. Think about that D1 vets. Imagine playing Inferno but your opponent has their radar available. How would that impact the match?
I think the core issue is that no subclass has an effective counter to Invisibility used before, during, or after every engagement. There isn't one tool that any other subclass has to cope with an opponent capable of ambushing you or evading you every time they get in trouble. And if they aren't off radar they can easily plant a smoke grenade and affect your radar anyways.
To further complicate it, the current meta weapons play entirely to Nightstalkers tool set, and Tether counters every other Super instantly with range large enough to hit you around corners. Aggressive pushes using Supers are risky and easily countered. So much for those mobile Supers.
I can't help but admire how incredibly well designed Way of the Trapper is. Total synergy within the Nightstalker tool set. But it's become clear to me after Crimson Doubles week, that Nightstalkers have won at Crucible and it's time to change their winning formula: Invisibility.
Why is invisibility granted to both Way of the Trapper and Way of the Pathfinder? No other subclass shares a skill like that for both skill trees. We are forced to either pick utility or strength of Super. Yet, Nightstalkers can integrate it into their Dodge or Melee.
The only real solution is to retain Invisibility for Way of the Pathfinder and completely replace Vanishing Step with a new skill. My recommendation is an Icarus-type perk. It would play well to the aerial antics of smg and sidearm toting Nightstalkers, and bring back the aerial play making ability of skilled players while making the risk/reward a little more reasonable versus the current Invisibility status quo.
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Way of the Trapper is a perfectly designed PvE build as well. I'd welcome these changes if Bungie completely separated PvE and PvP.
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1 ReplyMaybe it has something to do with that being the only viable or useful class for hunters in pvp aside from supers.
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1 ReplyI see where you see an issue but I see balance. Hear me out, in my experience Hunters are not able to use their class' sneakiness in the Crucible. Invisibility allows for that stealth. "Invisible" isn't exactly the right word either, more like "transparent" as it is possible to see a cloaked Hunter. Especially if they are in an environment that is not blue.(As that is the color of their outline) Invisibility gives a Hunter a better chance to attack their target while not getting gunned down. (Hunters are soft targets, as I'm sure you know) But hey, that's just from my point of view. The point of view of a Hunter. So consider me biased if you like.
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1 ReplyI think the most frustrating thing for me is that all comments against hunters get disliked instantly and they are not objective enough to say yes our class is OP or other things need to be buffed to be as good. At least the amount of comments show that there is some validity to the fact.
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Bang on the money there. All we are seeing is invisible hunters. Or not seeing as the case may be
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4 RepliesAnybody defending nightstalkers use them. If a stacked team of nightstalkers goes against a stacked team of non nightalkers its a loss for the latter of the 2. Fighting one is no big deal but fighting 4 with jesters on is not counterable unless you are a Nightstalker. Probably close to 75% of teams I get into are all nightstalkers, and I play with mostly high win % and kd players. Remove invisibility from dodge completely. Pretty much the only teams I lose to are nightstalker crutches.
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1 ReplyEdited by Redback61: 2/24/2018 9:53:50 AMI agree that the hunter invisibility is kinda bullshit, I myself am a hunter main and I would much rather have D1 shadestep than an invisibility after dodging. I don’t like the invisibility, I don’t like using it or going against it please make shadestep like it used to be... I mean warlocks have Icarus dash with dawnblade that recharges every 5 seconds why can’t hunters and titans have a 5 second Doge ability??
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27 RepliesEdited by Klaus_Reaper (Adept): 2/25/2018 12:59:44 PMTired of Nightstalkers bullshit...
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Edited by Uriel Draigo: 2/25/2018 6:51:10 PMI think the Nightstalker's kit is fine as is. Invisibility only applies until a shot is fired - it's great for outmaneuvering until then, but beyond that, I don't see a problem.
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A quarter of the population using 1 of the 9 sublcasses... sounds balanced to me eSports here we come!!!!
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i actually play warlock but its very funny how people were saying hunters suck in d2 becuase they dont have rift or barrier like warlocks and titans but a usless dodge.
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Edited by STARWoLF00: 2/25/2018 7:04:56 PMLol, unsurprisingly that’s where all the 3-4.0 kd ratios are. Nightstalker a with Uriel’s/positive outlook and antiope Hoping all over the place blinding people and popping out of invis and instantly disappearing as soon as you attack them.
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Edited by joe comet: 2/20/2018 11:26:48 PMThere just a superior class over other classes Since invis takes you off radar Invis breaks AA Invis has a short cooldown I I hate this , it's meta In Trials and ask everyone how has a 3.0kd or 4.0kad they will say they main nightstalkers
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26 RepliesEdited by TheArtist: 2/21/2018 4:09:09 PMMy recommendation is that people stop trying to make a space magic game play like a pure shooter. The only reason Hunter invisibility is FRUSTRATING to play against is because all the complaints about "crutch weapons" led to the game stripping out all the ways of COUNTERING someone armed with a sword once they get inside the distance they can cover before you can manage to kill them with your primary weapon. If this were Destiny 1, most of these Ninja Nightstalkers would have either gotten a face full of buckshot....or gotten hosed down with sidearm fire before they could close to melee range. But this is what happens when play a game where we are space magic users....but then complain about DYING to that space magic in PVP...and demanding it be taken out of the game. If you don't like dying to space magic...then play a game where there isn't any of it...rather than demanding that this game be broken.
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Edited by Savage: 2/24/2018 8:55:00 AMWhat the stats show is that there is a rather large group of people who haven't taken the time to learn how to counter a class that wants to bring the fight in close. If you are going up against a Nightstalker who knows how to play, grenades, swords, smgs and sidearms are your, friend along with teamwork. You see that radar disappear (your eyes should be glued to that thing) you all jump around like idiots throwing grenades at your feet, toss in some sword spamming and you get an easy ass win. Just need to think about the game, not expect solutions to fall into your lap, like nerfs or changing fundamentals of game play to fix it for you. I'm a Nightstalker and I get my ass handed to me just as much as I do my own ass kicking, the difference? A player that knows how to play, and one that doesn't. My best results come from teams that fall apart, I'm looking for weakness as a team. 4 people all together, pretty hard for me to get much more than possible trading kills using that invis, and that's boring. Now if you wanna say I can invis to get out of a fight, chase me, I'm a squishy hunter, I got nothing for armor, nothing for health, toss grenades at me while I'm bouncing around, invis only lasts two seconds, unload everything you got at a half dead hunter, good players do it to me all the time. Bad players think it's over while I heal, get my ability back and realize I need to come at you in close, which I will do next time. PVP is about exploiting weakness, your number one priority should be looking for what's wrong on the other side of the fence and countering that with your entire team. Don't do that, you lost before you loaded in, it's that simple. My favorite moments in pvp are when I'm hiding around a corner waiting for the redbar to get close, I Dodge, sword ready, run around the corner and boom, I'm dead... Melee'd by a Titan or a Warlock who knows the map, pays attention and saw the ticket pop when a Nightstalker loaded his Quickfang. You are losing because you don't know how to play against the weakness of the class, not because it's a better class than yours.
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10 RepliesEdited by Black Magic: 2/22/2018 7:21:43 AMWorks as intended How about we nerf titans because they have two pulse nades? Of course not. That’s part of their skill tree
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2 RepliesEdited by jokefacekillah3: 2/21/2018 9:22:59 PMOk so let me get this straight. Talking PVE now. Titans get a wall every 20 seconds to shield them when In a bind. Warlocks get a rift to either continuously give them life or buff their damage output. Hunters get a F*cking dodge, and thank God, invisibility as well. So because people are overusing and abusing invis in PVP, you want it removed from the game and you call it a crutch? So then we will be left with just a dodge? Sounds like a bunch of nonsense to me. Why should PVE players lose hunter's only real good PVE ability because PVP players have anger issues? Also walls and rifts aren't crutches? I mean about to die and bam theres a 6 ft wall in front of you, we get 3 seconds of invisiblity. How about you guys just let it go and move on...Nerfing or removing Invisibility from this game because of whiny little crucibabies in not the answer and effects PVE which is the games main point of playing, sorry to say. I can't even believe talking about nerfing anything in d2 is a thing, with the community leaving more every week. You all need to accept the fact that the game doesn't revolve around PVP and your precious K'drs.
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Edited by xXDeViouS v2: 2/22/2018 7:12:49 AMI disagree. Invis doesn't last that long and is used to get close the enemies. Chances are pretty high I'm gonna get slapped by a warlock before I get within range to do anything since they can reach across the galaxy with their melee. A warlock who is buffed...probably with buffed teammates nearby hiding behind their porta-walls. Edit: This would really be a terrible change for pve imo
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Oh my. Sounds like someone might need a Waaaaambulance. Lol Adapt and overcome.
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1 ReplyI play a nightstalker exclusively in pvp. I can't be arsed with Titans and Warlocks. Pretty well every grenade kills me if it lands, the Titan shield is a real pita, either melee is deadly to me. If my grenade kills you, I laugh. I pretty much see a direct correlation between people loading out with The Colony and being easy targets for Hunters. If you think that thing is badass, you're gonna up my kill count. Point is, every class has something they need to counter, the object of the game should be trying to learn what it is. Bonus tip: Team work is an excellent counter to a Nightstalker, and every other class for that matter.
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2 RepliesSo I guess you just chose to overlook the fact that literally everything else about Hunters sucks? Like how we can die before our super animation is even over or the fact that our ability is literally move a few feet to the side. Or that we can't reach max recovery or that mobility is useless. Or that our grenades suck. I don't need to go on.
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1 ReplyAww he's butt hurt, arcstrider all the way here, never touch nightstalker, and I'm not affected by the invis in d2 u ever play d1 blades and stalkers can go invis, learn to play the game and find your own counter
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14 RepliesJesus. Go play call of duty. People like you ruined this game for me. How about you ask for buffs or counters? Nope. Nerf everything. Take powers away. Reduce movement speed. Make everything less special. Seriously, there are boring FPS games all over the place, go to them.
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7 RepliesI wish flashbang blinded, staggered movement, removed aim assist, did lingering damage, and acted like a radar poker...
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Edited by TheCommunityBIAS: 2/23/2018 4:52:32 AMAs a sidenote I wonder how many Hunter mains downvoted this well informed post because it disrupts and exposes there bias towards Nightstalker.
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This game is so unbalance Facing a stack team of 4 invisible hunters with another class is a nightmare
