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Discuss all things Destiny.
7/20/2017 12:54:33 AM
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Initial take on the beta? It's a beta! (Thoughts on all aspects)

So I was fortunate enough to play D2 at the Destiny Reveal Event and thoroughly enjoyed it and have like most been anticipating the beta to drop. Being on Xbox, I didn't get in until today but I've enjoyed the experience so far and been able to see and do a lot more. Being a beta there are obviously things that will need adjustment and the main things have already been covered ad nauseum since yesterday but here are my thoughts so far. [u][b]The campaign mission[/b][/u] This was really surprising because it's much longer than we played at the reveal. Our experience there started with Zavala in his bubble and ended much sooner. I really enjoyed the longer mission and think it's well paced and a good mix of enemies. If there's one complaint it's that we can't go through it co-op with friends after the initial run. [b][u]The strike[/u][/b] I'd played this in its entirety already but there seemed to have been tweeks to the final boss health this go round. Maybe they had it lowered because we couldn't talk to teammates at the reveal, but it didn't feel like a bullet sponge there and had more of that feel this go round. Obviously this will all change as health pools, damage numbers and ability cooldown are adjusted and I think Bungie are aware of opinions. [u][b]Ability cooldowns[/b][/u] Obviously this is probably the biggest complaint. I don't really have an issue with it in PvP as I think D2 is much more about gunplay. PvE it could definitely use a boost, but that said I'm not convinced it's anywhere close to the final build anyway. I have a hard time believing that our cooldowns won't decrease as we level in the actual game and don't see a level one and a level twenty having identical cooldown times. I think what we have in the beta is just arbitrary and Bungie have acknowledged it's too slow. [b][u]The new Nova Bomb[/u][/b] It's funny looking. Maybe okay in PvE, but I've seen videos of people just jumping over it in PvP and the only one I used there they just ran around a corner causing it to track harmlessly into a wall like a too aggressive truth round. [u][b]The new Titans[/b][/u] Not a fan so far. Titan skating should not have been removed, it was the secret sauce that made the class magic. I posted in 2014 Titans were the most mobile and fun movement class. It took the world a while to catch on, but it's too bad that eventually popularity led to their demise. [b][u]The Sentinel[/u][/b] My least favorite class in D2 but the low defense barrier with instant reload is pretty bossy. The high barrier is the trashest trash that ever trashed. I haven't figured out the super yet either. I'll practice more, but found it meh. [b][u]Striker[/u][/b] My most disappointing class to play. No skating. SC felt badass, but way too long between available use. The new super is cool, but not seeing it having much use in boss encounters. It does have the reload barrier as well, so that's a plus. RWG told me I should delete my D1 Titan after my critiques lol [b][u]Pole Dancer[/u][/b] Honestly forget the name, but w/e. I enjoyed this one a lot in PvE. Hunter may be my first class in D2 which surprises me. PvP the super seems a bit too easy to shut down (been on both ends). But overall I like the class and am interested to see how the second build plays. [b][u]Gunslinger[/u][/b] Liked it at the reveal, still like it here. Scatter grenades are bossy in PvP. GG is still great in PvP and has good utility in PvE with the additional shots. Again interested to see the second build, but like it a lot. [b][u]Voidwalker[/u][/b] Really enjoyed this class in PvE. Was maybe my favorite there, particularly the charged up grenades. Nova Bomb worked well in PvE, needs some serious hops in PvP and right now gimps the class there in my opinion. [b][u]Dawnblade[/u][/b] Feels nerfed from the reveal which surprised the hell out of me. It's still basically my Sunsinger I loved, but the super from then to now feels like initial Sunbreaker vs nerfed Sunbreaker. I could be wrong and again, maybe it's just health pools adjusted for communicating teams, but didn't quite have the wow I remembered and ultimately led to Hunters being my favorite so far. [b][u]Weapons[/u][/b] I -blam!-ing love hand cannons. My first D2 PvP kill? Hand Cannon. I have probably less than 40 in 3 years of D1. Still love the double primaries. Know this is a hot button topic but I love it. Having an AR/Hand Cannon combo is beast in PvP. Rolling Pulse/Hand Cannon or Pulse/AR in PvE is just heaven. The Warlock Omolon pulse rifle may be the best pulse rifle ever and [i]it's only a beta weapon[/i]. Also took me an entire campaign mission and 9/10ths of the strike to realize it's full auto. Oops. Hunter exotic hand cannon? Still the best thing ever. Don't like any of the scouts so far, but the full auto on the Hunter is okay. ARs are bossy af and by far the best weapons in PvP. Fusion rifles are love. PvP and PvE. Best power weapon in the game currently which is awesome. Every hand cannon I've used has been amazing. Warlock kinetic pulse is trash. Overall it's the beta and I imagine these weapons are pretty generic compared to what we'll be getting at end game of the full release and it makes me excited for what badass weapons are ahead of us. [b][u]Control[/u][/b] Matches are way too short. Games should be to 100 and not on a timer. The new control is much more fast paced and a lot of fun. The not having to neutralize is awesome. The reliance on guns with abilities needing to be much more tactical is great. 4v4 only... [b][u]4v4[/u][/b] The matches are fast paced and fun. Saw zero lag. That's all great. Having a party of 5-6 and only 4 can play still royally sucks. There needs to be 6v6 modes in D2. Make it a casual playlist that can be multiple game types like the old classic playlists in D1, but just give full 6 person fireteams the ability to play together again. Right now this is going to destroy fireteams and groups that have played and bonded in D1 and that's really sad. [b][u]Overall[/u][/b] It's a beta. There's a lot of fun and a lot that still needs cleaned up, but it's still Destiny and for the most part (looking at you Titans and 4v4) an improved game. I really hope the community are vocal in their critiquing what works and doesn't and I hope that this doesn't even scratch the surface of what D2 is in its final form, but for me I'm impressed and look forward to playing more. Now Bungie please get to work on that 6v6 playlist and we can all be winners. Thank you.
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  • Sorry, we're going to have to part ways on this. This is a game that is 6 weeks away from its release date Sols. This is a preliminary build of the game, and a preliminary tuning. So it is fair to assume that this is a good indication of who Bungie wishes the game to play on the PVE side. Just like the D1 beta was. ...and right now this is a game that is very poorly tuned for PVE play. The core systems are in good shape...and I'm fine with the weapon changes. But the offensive ability cooldowns are entirely too long. The ammo drop rates are entirely too low (I'm tired of running out of ammo in the boss fight during the strike)...and the changes to the movement system are annoying. I've yet to hear of a super hero who can run faster than he can fly. Once again PVE has taken too big of a hit for the sake of pvp. Especially on the offensive abilities front. With Bungie TRIPLE nerfing them, when simply making sticky grenades no longer a OHK would have been MORE than sufficient. Right now, this game feels FAR too much like Halo 5 than it does Destiny 2.

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    • Here's the thing: Yes, it's a beta, but its not just any ordinary beta. With a game that has such a poor record of being a train wreck, and with the implementation of many different changes to the game, some of which were very unpopular at the outset, the beta was Bungie's chance to show the world that, yes, indeed, they know what they are doing. And even though I won't get the chance to try it out for myself until tomorrow, I'm not getting that impression from everything I've read. In fact, pretty much all the feed back I'm reading thus far basically confirms ALL of my initial impressions following the reveal - and that is not a good thing. I know you and RWG had good experiences at the reveal, and even you admitted in your post here that bosses feel spongier, power ammo seems less available, abilities recharge super slow, etc. You can't tell me that they weren't aware this was going to happen if they altered the tunings from how they were in the reveal too much in the wrong direction. I can only presume that it was set this way to more closely mimic what we will be getting at launch, and the reveal was just set to easy mode in PVE so that the changes they wanted to make weren't a total flop. And yet, this was their chance to let EVERYONE en masse experience the changes for themselves. How could they conceive that this was going to go well? At a time when they should be cementing pre-orders, winning over skeptics, and increasing pre-launch purchases, they're basically doing the EXACT opposite. People are cancelling left and right and even if the issues are fixable, they've given their skeptics more ammunition to simply say "Told you so." To sum things up? NOT GOOD. The only people who I see that are happy with the changes are those people who should never have stopped playing halo in the first place. They're happy with having more emphasis on gun combat and not having powerful, OHK weapons in PVP. Everyone else? They came to Destiny for the space magic. They WANT to make liberal use of their abilities and supers, not because they need to, but because its FUN to and its part of the magic that makes Destiny an entirely different experience from a generic shooter. And then throw in the ability to pull out your Gjallahorn or Dragons Breath and drop some righteous fury on huge mobs of minions before you dome the boss with your sniper? That's just plain fun. This, from what I am seeing thus far, isn't fun for anyone but the MLG Pro's.

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      • I'm sorry but were you playing the Destiny 2 beta? I ask this because myself and a crap-storm of others are FAR from impressed with the current path this game is tumbling down. Pve: Character movement is slow as hell. You feel heavy. Like I'm dragging a dwarf around on my back. Abilities charge so slow I became trained to just not use them at all which made the game just feel like a contrived shooter. The guns were...ok. I thought the auto rifles handled well and sounded fresh but the power dps was abysmal. The scout rifle (my favorite weapon archetype) handled so poor I deleted it out of spite. Supers were both underpowered and rare to the point where again I felt like I was playing some generic shooter. The arcstrider super or pole-dancer as you call it, handled clunky as hell and needs a severe overhaul. All the other supers felt like they handled well but were on the same level as guns, extraordinarily underpowered. Ammo drops....I've seen a lot of complaining about heavy ammo which I agree with but damn....did anyone else constantly run out of primary ammo? I did. I also performed the hide and wait Destiny 1 maneuver to get a ghost ammo refill...after 6 minutes...nothing. Jumped off a cliff to force an ammo refill. Ridiculous. Aesthetics? The game looks good but it definitely isn't more detailed than D1. It's the same which in sure is the result of utilizing the old game engine. The fanboys on here that are pounding their chests while they scream how much better the game looks are being fooled by NEW things to look at instead of those things are actually sharper and more polished. They are not. The strike looked like I landed on a No Man's Sky planet that the vex made a home. Boring. The platforming was annoying with the nerfs to player movement. The strike itself was just a typical boring slog with less abilities, supers, ammo, and of course, fun. Can't have fun when you take what made Destiny fun and shove it under years of cooldown timers. Pvp: Balanced. Sweaty. Annoying. I had a 1.5 rating on my matches I played. Yay? Hit detection for melee seemed... lol hit and miss. I dunno exactly what was going on but it didn't feel right. And my final note: This is a beta. Yep. But you'd have to be a pretty foolish individual to not believe that a beta contains the core gameplay and mechanics to which the system is built upon that DOES give a realistic view to what is to come and at this point...it's not Destiny, and definitely not good.

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        • thank you for writing a review that I 99% agree with.. saves me from having to write it out myself. that 1%.. I love the striker titan.. mained it in d1 and still love it in d2. feels pretty good to me still. took down the boss with a few smashes etc.. even used it and then simply jumped back out of the way before he slammed his foot. to each their own though.

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        • Agree with most, but certainly not the skating. Titan was way too fast, this needed a fix. I understand Titan mains not pleased, but seriously.. they were on crack. No business being that freaking fast.

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          • Love seeing 90% of your posts in the negatives with likes. Reminds me that the community can be in chaos, but still remember that you're a burden to the community.

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            Its like bungie have done a complete u-turn and made it a competitive game when it was a game for casual players who wanted to grind , ill be giving my copy away when it arrives

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            • I am really disappointed with the new weapon system. The energy weapons feel exactly the same as kinetic. It's all right in pvp but so boring in pve. Also worst strike ever. I hope that Bungie are seriously holding a lot back but at this point Destiny has past its peak.

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            • I'll just leave this here for people to snack on... [url]https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2017/07/20/from-cooldowns-to-weapon-loadouts-destiny-2-has-hurt-pve-to-help-pvp/&refURL=https://www.yahoo.com/&referrer=https://www.yahoo.com/[/url]

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              • My short take, reposted. [quote]D2 beta review in brief: The core of what made Destiny good: gunplay, movement, and "space magic", has all been toned down. The graphics were given a polish, while the sound effects sound more like office supplies - staplers and typewriters, than powerful weapons. Pre-order canceled.[/quote]

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                • I uninstalled it from my console and pulled my reserve. Check out the Kotaku article and you will see that D1's story was reworked from Joseph Staten's body of work and it was just fragments of what he initially had in mind. After Joe, Marty and Clay Carmouche ( Lore and story writer of the Taken King) Left... THIS IS NOT THE SAME BUNGIE AND DEFINITELY NOT THE SAME DESTINY YOU FELL IN LOVE WITH!! When you get rid of important pieces like that, the game suffers dramatically. You can tell at how bad it is but no one wants to admit it because we don't want to feel like idiots. But this Destiny is bad that's from a personal standpoint and many others feel the same way. They have the name of Bungie but they do not have the same people who came together and created the spirit of what we all knew and loved.

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                  • Bad well ironically you always said you saw less lag in sbmm.I am seeing way more again. checked my netduma and I am again getting matched to America, Japan, Marittius (off the coast of south africa) and hawaii lol. sbmm is back and for me so is the lag. guns feel very weak. TTK is way too high. healing way too long making it a very passive game, supers and nades take wayyyyyyy too long to get. the last 45 seconds of a control match now is a mess with everyone popping supers. really dont like 4 v4 the strike was pretty boring. but most strikes are. Not a fan of the 2 primary weapons. pvp in general is now a massive team shoot meta. meaning weaker players will have a dreadful time in there. I prefer games where I can kind of lone wolf and play aggressive. this pvp is the total opposite of what I like. I honestly cant see me playing in it. after seeing a 4v4 control map I am not even sure they can put 6v6 in. 6v6 in that control map would just be crazy. unless the other maps are bigger I think there isnt really a way 6v6 comes back. Only way I see it is if they have a group of 6v6 maps made for say iron banner. Good the first non replayable mission gave me goosebumps. Soon as I played that I was eager to get in to the game and play. pacing and action in that mission was fantastic. Summary this for me isnt destiny. This for me is likely the last I play of destiny unless they are going to make a lot of changes. having checked a dev's twitter who is jumping all over praise and saying its a shame towards criticism suggests this is what the game is. there may be tweaks here and there but this is pretty much it. for me this is likely my last week as a guardian and a pre order cancel.

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                    • To me, pvp wise, they took out everything that made destiny unique and just left, not one, but two primary weapons. It's like a budge version of halo

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                    • Edited by MoonlightHare: 7/20/2017 8:03:11 AM
                      Destiny 1 was all about different abilities and they were very different from one another Those abilities were what made Destiny 1 great and such fun to play. It was space magic through and through. In PvE I could use primary secondary and heavy weapons as the occasion demanded. It made encounters interesting and I felt strong. It was all about doing your own thing, even though, due to a deliberate lack of will on Bungies part you could not do end content without a premade team. In PvP I could go into a 6v6 control game as an individual and enjoy the chaos of abilities, gunplay and grenades. Not knowing if I could die at any time if someone had a super added a piquancy to the match. It was tumultuous but it was such great fun. From what I have seen in the BETA I would make the following observations. What is Destiny 2 if those abilities have been so curtailed as to be virtually pointless. Every super takes an eternity to charge and is so much weaker than the old supers. Whilst Bungie have said that they are aware of this, their policy of making everything the same in PvP and PvE will surely prevent them from making too much of a change. If they do strengthen them for PvE that gives a lie to their ethos of keeping everything the same between the two modes. Every melee seems to have been made to be the same distance. Why? The differences were what made them special. It is undeniable that the new melees are weak , again why ? Why are grenades so weak now ? Destiny 2 seems to be about keeping tight control of players and team play. No room in the new 4v4 Crucible for the lone wolf, got to get those team plays now oh and one super if you are lucky. There is a world of difference between Destiny 1 and 2. If you loved space magic Destiny 1 definitely got that part right. I never played Halo but from what I have seen of it if you enjoyed Halo then welcome to Destiny 2. Edited to add From Guided games to watered down space magic Destiny 2 seems to be about Bungie controlling how their player base plays down to the most basic things. If that is what people want then that's okay but don't let anyone kid themselves that Destiny 2 is anything other than a poor relation to Destiny 1 in its concept

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                      • I'm afraid Bungie shit the bed on this one, Sols.

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                      • 'Titan skating shouldn't have been removed' Your long ass post lost any credibility right there!

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                        • My 2 minute review, 2 days ago: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/229189899/0/0

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                        • I have to say I loved the campaign. Felt like something was actually happening, npcs actually mattered, some Bungie humor with the sweeper bot etc. The strike was good too, better than I remember D1, still nothing of much replay value for me but it felt harder and it was more like a raid setup. I liked the scenery too. Pve ya the classes and weapons seem a little bland but it's the beta and looking back at the D1 beta it actually feels similar. Once more guns are unlocked, mods, playstyles and roles are felt out it will feel better. Like the messed up nova bomb is only in that skill tree it seems. Pvp seems like all steps in the right direction. More balanced, less gimmicks, etc. my only complaint is the length of games and the super charge time makes the end of every game super spam time. You can't hold it for the right moment because it's usually pretty close to the end anyway. Additionally grenades should be tweaked to be more deadly or have a shorter refresh time imo. Overall I like it. Yes it's a little stale with one map and I doubt many have found their weapon to fall in love with so it all looks good for the full game I'm confident that Bungie will tweak and tune the charge times and weapon damage until release cause they love to -blam!- with things too for better or for worse.

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                        • 200 responses. Zero up votes. You must be going for some kind of record. Though, I don't doubt you already hold the record…

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                        • Edited by Beej: 7/20/2017 5:45:55 AM
                          .... When we come back, truthcast is racist? more on white pointy hats....after these messages

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                          • I won't be playing the beta till tomorrow, but from what I've seen there are things to be worried about. From watching gameplay and reading feedback (not just here, articles and reddit and really anywhere I can find it) it seems like there are a few issues almost everyone agrees on. Movement speed is terrible, supers/melees/abilities take way too long to charge, power weapon ammo doesn't drop enough in PvE and Nova Bomb is completely jacked up. I've seen quite a few people saying that what we're playing now is what is going to ship since we're only 6 weeks away from launch, but I tend to think it's not unreasonable to believe that IF bungie sees the overwhelmingly negative feedback about these things that they can and will change them prior to launch day. I'm not holding my breath on this, because Bungie has earned their reputation about being stubborn and only changing what they believe to be a problem. So in the end I'm going to play the Beta and hope for the best. If I play it and have problems then I'll just go to redbox after launch and test it out for a few bucks.

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                          • Edited by ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ: 7/20/2017 6:25:17 PM
                            If Bungie implements changes taken from the feedback, critiques and reviews of their player base, then it's a beta. If they don't, it's just a short demo that they'll just keep patching.

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                          • https://imgur.com/4TodaeN https://imgur.com/vgAuhWR If I had a pre-order I would cancel it til Bungie addresses this. looks pretty useless in PVE.

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                            • Edited by RedAlertSteve: 7/20/2017 6:29:24 PM
                              I'm just gonna point out that the beta build is 6 months old

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                              • That Warlock Arc Submachine Gun in conjunction with high Recovery and Healing Rift when tanking the Strike Boss was damn fun, granted every add isn't also targeting you as well. Arc Burn strikes with that thing is going to be very interesting.

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                              • -30 fps :( -invisible walls and ceilings everywere -weapon slots are a mess -4vs4 control is depressing -no random perks -grenades dont kill -spong bullets everywere fixed -less laggers than d1 -defender got buffed -can switch activities avoiding going to orbit -bigger areas/instances in general, feels like a nice DLC

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