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Edited by Lost Sols:
2/23/2017 4:57:04 PM
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Everything wrong with Destiny balancing summed up in one tweet
This was posted in response to if Bungie is going to do something about magnetism/aim assist on grenades.
[quote]@Big_Plays_Ron That's tracking, technically. We know it can be frustrating to get stuck and killed. It's on the list, but not coming asap.
-Josh Hamrick[/quote]
So there are a couple of things here, not the least of which is that sticky grenades are going to be nerfed at some point because dying is frustrating.
If that's really a reason to ruin weapons and abilities people like to use, what's the point?
And I'm not trying to be a dick to Bungie or Hamrick about it and I hope that people curtail the calls for jobs, but honestly I think this statement shows how little Bungie understand about why players love playing their characters so much.
The fact is [i]it's frustrating dying to anything[/i], so where does the rabbit hole end?
Nerf stickies now, but then how fair is axion tracking? Isn't it frustrating being chased across the map by seekers?
Then Lightning Grenades will have to go because it's frustrating that I can't recognize that I just got hit by a pulse and step 2 feet to either side.
And don't get me started on Suppression Grenades, it's really frustrating not being able to jump, super or use my own grenades for like 5 hours after getting hit by one. That has gotta go.
Sticky grenades have been in the game since launch. They've [b]never[/b] been a problem. So why now?
Which leads to the other big issue with balance philosophy.
[b]Who exactly are Bungie balancing Destiny for?[/b]
I know there's been a lot of debate over this, but who did lessening sbmm benefit?
The majority of casual players?
Why did Sunsingers (and DoTs in general), MIDA, Thorn, rez shields, special ammo, shotguns and snipers all get nerfed?
Trials.
And why are sticky grenades suddenly an issue?
Funny how Triplewreck started calling for their nerf last week and suddenly something everyone can use that performs the same for everyone and has been a non-issue since launch, and is FUN, is now being looked at and on a list to be nerfed.
Datto didn't like our Sunsingers, they frustrated him.
Dr Lupo and TW didn't like sbmm, playing equal competition frustrated them.
It's one thing to say streamers and "content creators" don't have influence in dictating play, but I'm having trouble not seeing the correlation.
Then there's the decision to remove special ammo on death to "promote primary usage", but they let Sidearms keep their ammo and start with it after every death, which in turn has just made everyone run sidearms 24/7
You can't make statements that you want NLB to perform like other snipers because you want consistency across the class and then make changes to Specials but exclude one... Where's the consistency there?
I've said time and again I understand that they're trying to just get D1 to the finish line and shaking up metas is easier than creating new content, but honestly this is the first time I've really been worried about what D2 will be if anything fun is going to be targeted for a nerf because it's "frustrating" dying to it and the players making livings pub stomping are allowed to dictate how we play.
Edit: art imitating life https://youtu.be/E2v675klbZ0
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What's funny and sad at the same time is the reason behind sticky tracking is most likely the lad/latency inherent with p2p connections. You throw a grenade and watch it curveball and kill someone. Or your shoot someone, duck behind a rock, and you are killed by a sticky that should have been stopped by cover. In both instances it was the lack of quick, accurate communication that caused the "lag kill". How many post mortum medals have you received with primary and secondary weapons? A bunch I'm sure. You can nerf the hell out of grenades and it won't change the limits of the connections. If the get rid of sticky and tracking grenades that may do it, because they all would be area of effect.
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This wouldn't make me so depressed. If the track record of patches have been nerfs and changes game wide where PvE needs no nerfs to begin with. If they could contain changes to pvp. I myself would not be so upset. I have disliked destiny's PvP since the beta. Its never felt like a smooth transition between the two modes. Then since release its been nothing but patches to break gear, abilities and weapons. Mind you designed for PvE encounters not the crucible. Then maybe try to fix the issue with a small buff or a hotfix weeks to months later. But never addressing the issue that PvE is not PvP. Then one of those famous lines for Luke Smith "we want more variety... " so no more elemental primary weapons. Huh all I see for a arch burn week is zhalo supercell. Some variety we got going here would love to pull out Oversouls edict prydths time piece. It may sound off topic but I have a point. Bungie true to fix things granted some fixes for work. But in the past near there years of patches and patches to fix patches. Or making drastic changes to leave one item in the game that you totally removed from being viable alternative from all others. When on earth does reality sink in of hey we are going about this wrong. Or hey our changes has only benefited PvP and broke this for PvE. Granted again they have done some good and admitted at times hey we broke this we will fix it. Though it's been a lot more live with it and radio silence. But if the ship is steaming into an iceburg why ram the ship into it tell the ship bounces off. Then continue on and ignore the fact the ship is taking on water and starting to list to one side, And say working as intended. In the end bungie really needs to change its focus on How their game is balanced. The generalized across the board changes need to stop. It needs to be fine tuned and focussed on the problem. While containing changes to the game mode that's suffering problems. Then one huge thing needs to be addressed. PvP and PvE encounters are not the same stop trying to combine the two.
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1 ReplyComparing fusions, a bullshit one hit grenade with tracking To Axions, which aren't one hit, and are avoidable when detected. Ok.
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11 RepliesBungie needs to separate PVP and PVE. Nerf PVP to hell for all anyone cares but leave PVE the hell alone!!!
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3 RepliesHonestly, they need to revert every the Firebolt nerfs to Sunsingers and the Arc Bolt nerfs. The reality was that they might have burned people severely but we now have a counter measure to fire bolts. Memory of Silimar is an exact counter to it and it'll encourage a diversity within the Iron Lord artifacts. Rather than just seeing Memory of Skorri and Jolders, we would see a flux of Silimars. Also, revert all sniper changes so that they're viable once more. More than that, take back the shotgun changes in terms of precision damage so that we're able to do something in pve. If we revert all these changes and bring back the old special ammo economy from the April update from last year, I think this game would be in a very good shape.
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3 RepliesWell said! I have no problem with people who play ToO but they shouldn't dictate content changes any more than ardent fans of Rumble, Rift, or Control should get to. Just isolate changes to ToO and leave the rest of Destiny alone, especially PvE. Bungie has smart people working there. If they can find a way to keep you out of Trials without a Passage Card, they can find a way to keep the nerfs just to Trials. Now I hear rumors that Skorri's artifact is next on the nerfing block. Hey, remember the quaint old times when the worst part of PvP was lag? :) In the meantime, changes that would really help PvE will apparently never happen. For example, there's no good reason why matchmaking shouldn't at least be optional for all non-Raid activities. All of the Prison of Elders levels should have matchmaking optional. Nightfall especially and no, I don't expect it could happen overnight but those changes have been requested pretty much since the advent of those activities, so there's been ample time to implement them if only Bungie wanted to. I really enjoy Destiny a lot, both PvE and PvP. I just don't understand why the concerns of a vocal minority are more important than those of the rest of the community.
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Oh, Lost... you are so silly. In fact, you are crazy if you think something like common sense and fair arguments have any place here. "Reasoning". Bah! LOL...Seriously though... There was one thing you stated that, to me, was very much worth repeating. You took the words right out of my mouth: [quote]...honestly this is the first time I've really been worried about what D2 will be if anything fun is going to be targeted for a nerf because it's "frustrating" dying to it and the players making livings pub stomping are allowed to dictate how we play.[/quote]
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Edited by xirtket99: 2/22/2017 6:38:06 AMVery well said. I can't agree more. They say they don't take anyone's opinion over the next guy.. which is utter bs.. how do u come to this conclusion you ask? Let me ask you this, do you have cosmo or anyone else on your friends list?? Didn't think so, there's plenty of streamers that do.. Tell me again you don't value their word over the community's.. you don't invite a random dude out to your offices to play the game and discuss changes, do you? Didn't think so.. Just because someone doesn't stream on twitch or YouTube, or has a 121124.54 kd ratio doesn't mean their input isn't important.. My argument to justify this is.. Let's say you buy a brand new truck, and you're a billionaire, and you don't like the headrest, and provide feedback to the manufacturer. Then Joe blow who is barely above poverty level buys the same truck, and doesn't like the user interface on the radio, and also provides feedback to the manufacturer. Which item on that truck do u think will be changed first? Most likely the headrest. Basically tubers and streamers have fan boys yes, but they usually represent their beliefs and then the fan boys jump the bandwagon not fully knowing the outcome of their actions and it ruins the game for themselves in the process, because their not some Uber streamer, so it in turn got worse for them, but hey.. the tuber likes it so then the fan boys will like it even if they don't full agree. I'll go on a loooong limb here and over estimate that there's say, 10,000 popular streamers and tubers for destiny, and in The first month destiny sold 6.3 million copies of the game... you tell me how their opinions matter more than the other 6,290,000 people's? Tl;dr: go ahead bungie, keep siding with the tubers, they represent themselves, and are representing your game into the ground. You're game can't survive without allllll the little poverty stricken Joe blows playing, and only the billionaires playing. Their population is much smaller than Joe blows is. Since their here for money, once your ship goes down, they'll take their fan base to another game. Destiny who?
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3 RepliesAgreed, never thought I'd say this, but since this patch the fun is gone, some tweaks I agree with, others not so much, and then there are the ones that were never asked for..... I too question if D2 will be worth it.
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I like this post makes a lot of sense.
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4 RepliesIt makes me happy to see that so many other people are unhappy with the game at this point and this recent "balancing" update. I got on for the first time in a week or so only to run some strikes with some friends. I refuse to touch crucible right now because I'm tried of the lazy, thoughtless balancing and nerfing. I too have gone from someone who absolutely used to love Destiny and all it's quirks, to someone who will not be pre-ordering or getting D2 until I see reviews and gameplay. THAT'S how bad they've been -blam!-ing things up lately and it seems I'm not the only one who feels that way.
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That makes me so mad, You idiots are to the point of saying FUSIONS are op now, I'm done, I quit, Warlocks Sunsinger is bad enough with fusions but now they're nerfing them? I'm done, 2 of my 3 favorite subclasses are literally worthless now. You community (except the DTC) are all idiots if you think that nlb and fusions are op
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The only frustrating thing about sticking grenades that I can think of is titan fusion grenades have a one mile magnetism range, while all the others have about three inches.
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Edited by The 7th fall: 2/22/2017 1:07:02 AMWell said LS I honestly don't get why Bungie panders to such a low minority, and on something(s) that have been around for a long time that wasn't a problem in the past. But due to extensive nerfing people look to what can get the job done ASAP and then complain about that... it's no bad thing to have diversity, hell wouldn't it be better to have people complain how they die to a lot of things rather than "Waaaa sticky 'nades, waaaa shotgun, waaa sniper, waaa sidearm"? If you see diversity in complaints than the sandbox team knows they're doing their jobs. That kind of diversity ended with Luke "thrown money at the screen" Smith and ToO... Also Sols I disagree with the notion that the sandbox team shouldn't be fired for what's happening(I hope I read that part right). They have utterly dragged this game down to such a boring a** pathetic excuse of a forced team based game that was not designed for that at all! I can admire their passion, but not the results of it.
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Edited by hazyy-_-hoppz76: 2/22/2017 1:23:17 AMYes brother, the crucible definitely dictates how this game is managed!!! I realized this the first "weapons balance" way back when it was the pulse rifle. Just remember these are children we are dealing with. These developers are children at heart and sometimes their little hearts are troubled. So they throw their temper tantrums at the meetings on how things "suck" dying from and nerf accordingly. They will cherry pick die hard sweaty crucible players and claim it's a "majority" that want x amount of changes. Bottom line is I never heard ANYONE say something had to be nerfed or buffed because of its performance in PvE. Maybe when the first "shotgun buff" was introduced because they were literally useless in PvE. Unfortunately for some, PvE is definitely an afterthought in this franchise and we all better get used it.
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So basically what you're saying is, you want side arms to start with 18 bullets every time and not have the ammunition stack up upon death.
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1 ReplyEdited by spencerIVhire: 2/22/2017 2:36:12 PMbump all they had to do is pull up the damage to primaries so you would consistently take down someone charging u or bring up autos, tweak some slow pulses, and bring down mat64, conspiracy-D, party crasher ..... oh wait starting to name too many shotties, all long range shotguns then. most would have been happy with just these changes. man when my wife keeps asking why i'm not paying destiny the game she hates me playing things are at a all time low bcus even when pve dies i would still tinker with pvp but it's just crazy that i can run jabberhakke(ever been hit by this with HC rds😒) with 115 plus rounds in it and that relic sniper and its is a better option then running most of my primaries. GREAT JOB BUNGIE
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Edited by IllDIDDYDONUT: 2/22/2017 2:16:47 PMwell the nerf police has ruined this game year 1 was op fun great times year 2 on wards a god dam snooze fest i can barley play pve these day's because of nerfs ruining my guns and abilities like shotguns didn't bungie realise they killed of all of them not just mapador and party crasher fusion rifles those poor bastards yet again to cut a long story short bungie can't balance a game and the evidence is there its going on 3 years and still they cant do it there -blam!-ing useless
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4 RepliesAlso, this isn't directly on topic, but your suppression grenade comment reminded me of it- those green poisonous pools in Omnigul now? They suppress you, prevent you from running and jumping? No purpose- just super annoying when you're trying to run to the enemies. Stupid.
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Edited by WhatizLifeBro: 2/22/2017 2:36:07 PMD2 will be just like D1. An overhyped, bare bones game with pretty good core gameplay and shiny new graphics. Everyone will continue to whine on the forums yet they'll still log on daily and buy emotes...Bungie is laughing at you. I just play the game and don't worry about all the bullshit.
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Many of the youtubers' complaint is, ''we want people to use primaries but we didn't want to be forced to use primaries.'' What is ironic is whenever a good primary comes along, most of them complain and want it nerfed. Almost all of them lack critical thinking skills.
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2 Repliesif they restore the tick on thorn, buff viking funeral back to year 1, increase throwing knife tick and melting point tick, people will have to make a conscious decision whether they run a lingering damage class, or counter one with the memory of silimar artifact. This should have a drastic effect on the number of people running skorri, and turn the game from a braindead run and gun to a strategic battle of wit and skill.
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4 RepliesThe most depressing thing about that tweet is learning that there's a list 😒.
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So the same people that took a grenade that had no tracking and removed it's ability to stick. You think they need to be told that a grenade with way to much tracking that sticks isn't fair.
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Correlation isn't causation. When you have such a wide range of streamers you will always be able to find ones that go along with whatever nerf just happened. People are just dumb and act like streamers are the cause of all bad things which is just idiotic. They are allowed to have opinions just like anyone else. It just so happens that theirs is public and yours really isn't.
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Does Bungie realize that literally EVERYTHING can be frustrating/annoying when you get killed by it? If nerfs are based off of that, what is the point? This type of game, the point IS to kill stuff, PVE or PVP, your job is to kill what is in front of you... take that away & what do we have? Spinmetal farming simulator?
