When players say things like, '' Oh it's just and exploit,'' or '' Oh it's just a glitch.'' or '' Oh it's the devs fault, I'm just taking advantage of the game they gave me.'' It's nothing more than a license for devs and publishers and more importantly, other players, to think and act the same way. Players make the rules because players run the show, without the players there would be no rules to break, and there would be no rules to set. Speaking in, ingame terms. When you pushed Atheon, that was cheating, when you pulled the plug on Crota, that was cheating, when you used unlimited shadow shots, that was cheating, if you are using unlimited rocket launcher ammunition because of a glitch, that is cheating. If you are constantly red barring and continue to play anyway, even if you are not using a lag switch, you are giving yourself an unfair advantage over other players through indifference. Rather then log out or investigate the problem, you continue playing at the expense of others who are trying to do everything they can to play on a stable connection, that is cheating, Lets stop pretending that it's ok in some circumstances and not all of them, because one inevitably leads to the other. Cheating is cheating period. There is no ambiguity. Players need to start taking responsibility for the examples they set, and the ways they choose to play the game. So you have ten thousand rockets, doesn't mean you have to use all ten thousand. Something in your brain should click and go hey wait a second, maybe, just maybe, this is the wrong thing to do. Why don't I be sportsmanlike, or try to be, and just use two or three rockets instead of a thousand? Games like this, with long online lifespans, will always be plagued with glitches and exploits. It's par for the course. And that is where you as a player comes in. It is just as much your responsibility as it is the developers and people that make and maintain the game, to keep it's integrity. To insure that we are all on a fair and just playing field. It's time to stop using indifference as an excuse. It's time to stop using Bungie and Activision as an excuse. You don't have to play, or use the interface in ways you know damn well they were not intended to be used. And player ingenuity is not an excuse either. Just because you found that rock or crevice that simply protects you from enemy fire, does not mean it's not an exploit. Some might argue there is a fine line between a harmless cheese and cheating, to which I would argue that line is part of the problem. It needs to be clearly defined and understood. If not then it's merely a slippery slope to higher forms of cheating or cheesing. Lets be clear, manipulating game space in ways it was not intended is cheating the system. If you bypass mechanics, if you somehow make yourself immune to damage, or overpowered, these are all forms of cheating, but cheating nevertheless. Bump for no more cheating. And bump for no more excuses why it's alright to cheat. It isn't. And on a more personal note, and for the record, my achievements in Destiny, every..single..victory, over almost two years now, has been 1000% legit. Can you say the same? Edit. Not surprisingly, most people on this thread seem to be more than comfortable passing the buck to .....wherever they need to in order to justify their..'' Bending of the rules.'' So far I have been called all sorts of things. From a lying hypocrite, to a guy with a pole up his ass, to a guy that takes this to seriously. Over and over again, '' It's just a game dude chill.'' Just incredibly intellectual responses. '' Dude brah, rlex, just a game.'' ( And yes that's how that person tried to spell relax.) so primitive I have to keep reminding myself what Century we are in. I don't know what's worse, the responses themselves, or the fact these people actually took the ten minutes out of their droll lives to type them as a means of a well educated retort. Quite frankly you should be embarrassed to present yourself on the internet in such ridiculous ways. As much as you are clowns, and as much as you enjoy the Circus, that doesn't mean every topic resides under the big top. Do yourselves and everyone else a favor, stop typing stupid shit. And none of that, whether true or untrue, changes the fact that you cheated at a freaking kids video game. Tell me, if one feels the need to cheat at a child's game, wouldn't the implication be that they are the ones that in fact, take it more seriously then those who do not? I would think so. For if you didn't, why would you feel the need to cheat in the first place? It's just a game remember? I am here to condemn no one. Sadly, I am a solider of truth. And that is where my duty lies. In the truth. Let the world beware if they don't want to hear it. And as such, it is my responsibility to call you out on your bullshit. Because,...who else will? If people like me don't say anything, the status quo continues to remain.You aren't supposed to like it, but I do expect people of reasonable intelligence to understand when they have been or are, completely full of shit. And to maybe think for just a split second, about the actions they take, and how they might affect others. Sadly I have come to realize as more and more comments come flooding in, that this may have been too much to ask. A rather sad commentary, Last edit. Some have complained that more than three paragraphs is too much for them to read...on a site..that...is...devoted...to....reading...other..peoples....opinions...and....feedback.... My apologies. I forgot what I was dealing with. Next time I'll be sure to use Crayola drawings with a stick figure play by play. All for your entertainment purposes. Final, final edit. Some people seem to be very upset over my comments about connections. So lets put it to rest here and now. When a person invests time and money into a product, they have every right to expect that product to run at it's highest peak levels. With a product such as an online game, it requires a third party product to insure that product runs at the aforementioned peak levels. I think everyone would agree on that point at least. If one goes into a store, and wanders over to a gaming section, and sees a title they may be interested in purchasing. And the title clearly states internet required, two things should cross your mind in the form of common sense. 1. Do I in fact have the required speeds required to insure that this product I am interested in purchasing runs at the highest peak levels possible. And are those speeds good enough to insure the same experience for myself and the people I am playing with or against. 2. If I do not have the required speeds, what should I do beforehand to make sure the product I am about to invest time, money, and energy into can indeed run at them? And is it affordable? It requires self evaluation. Understand? If you know that your home internet is being run by Squirrels and a toaster, it's probably a safe bet to reconsider purchasing an online game. I'm not talking about people with mild speeds. These drama queens coming on here droning about the occasional red bar. Go away. This has nothing to do with you. The point of coop and mp is defeated if players are not having the same experience. This isn't complicated. If you are running speeds that can't maintain the game, then yes, you should play something else. Sorry. But that is the considerate, and it is the responsible thing to do. And should be done until such time that the circumstances can be changed. However, for the record, I'm not advocating bans. This is your game. If you want it to deteriorate and turn into a laughing stock, then by all means, continue playing Destiny on crappy wifi. As I said numerous times, it's up to you to decide how this game is played. Players are responsible for a games success, and they are responsible for it's failures.