I don't mind people setting requirements and all but I've always found it hard to build six. It's why I've never done that many raids. Sucks because I really enjoy them, especially VoG and KF. I love the teamwork it requires and lately it really is all about how well everybody can pull together and master the mechanics. And there's some great people out there that are willing to explain things. But usually when I set aside time to get into a raid, so much time is wasted just trying to get a group together that actually is willing to run with randoms. LFG and the forums is like trying to shout in a crowded 50 acre field for a team, and when the "must have" crowds are involved it makes it even more difficult. I dunno if some kind of matchmaking is the answer or what. People say to get a clan, but that's kinda just as difficult. Nature of the beast I guess. I just wanna raid, without the whole slog of wandering through messages and posts looking for peeps to actually play. Randoms can be a pain in the ass, but I actually think it makes a team stop and work stuff out. Not every random is a douche, I think we gotta be more willing to jump in together and get it done, rather than wanting high light lvl and a super fast run with Spindles and Sleepers and what not. The absolute worst part of the raids is trying to put one together. For me anyway.

I seriously don't think I've played a game before where so much of the community felt they were elite or special for being good at beating the cpu. Seriously, I've been in raids where if someone screwed up once the leader was like "Die again or do that again and I'm going to have to kick you", or straight insults because we didn't beat warpriest in one run. None of you kids are making any money or doing anything special playing this game, bring your egos down a notch. The raid is not even fun for me to do because there are so many kids like that so I just don't bother anymore, and... the raid is easy as hell. Sometimes the community makes me not even want to play this game. Salute guardian, you've got a good attitude.

I'm all for the idea of helping people get through the raid all the mechanics up until the sisters is really easy to grasp and explain, you just need to be patient with new players to the raid. It sucks that a lot of high level players will kick people after one wipe due to some mistake that can easily be fixed in the next run or some explanation on the correct way to do something. But great post and keep on raiding! 👏

Most of us veterans are willing to help people no matter how geared they are. Because most of use beta/launch players were not geared with over powered weapons. The first time I completed Vault of glass I was level 28 I had a Thorn (the shitty Launch version not the god tier) a Comedian and a blue heavy. I was the most geared out of my group many of us barely had legendaries. We know what it's like to start without Ice Breakers, Gjallarhorn, Black Hammers, Black Spindle, Touch of Mallice. Dude my first Oryx kill was with Snipers and LMG to stun him. Me and a buddy taught 4 brand new players how to do hard mode oryx and we beat it after 30 minutes. My point is raids really aren't that hard without all these Crutch weapons, it's hard to find groups that will run it without them. It's sad actually, it's just like people requiring Gjallarhorn all over again.

I think people forget its a game and people play to enjoy their time. Sure everyone wants the loot, and everyone will get flustered after a few wipes in the same encounter. JUST HAVE FUN WITH IT!!

I think a big reason is because King's Fall especially, can take anywhere from an hour to three hours. Some people just want to do the raid in a timely manner. I can't tell you how many times I've begun a raid at ten and my team would give up at one in the morning.

It's honestly sad that people ignore those who don't have ToM, I didn't have my ToM untill I raided with the group we have together now. But why is it acceptable to lock a group of people out of content because they haven't played it and gotten the ToM yet. Helping everyone with Harley, alpha and link has been an amazing time and were probably gonna have to continue doing so since lfg is impossible to use unless your at no life status in the game already. Thank you guardians for showing support.

I've been playing since the beta & the only raid I've done is kings fall & that was at the beginning of ttk. I would love to do vog & ce.

Definitely can't ignore this. Weapons, gear, and max level don't win raids... Knowledge, cooperation, and doing tasks does. Nasty attitudes will make it worse. I can't help but to chuckle at people with numerous of absurd requirements to do raids especially since not everyone have or like those two the weapons you mentioned in your post. I remember back at VOG and CE raids, joining groups were easy along with hard mode runs. They even didn't really want me to use Ghally or Icebreaker. What most of the groups wanted from me is that if I've beaten those raids back then and still have knowledge of the raid mechanics. Said yes, so I was granted to join their runs! I told them I have a rocket with GaH and a sniper with final round(lol the good ol' days of final round). Then, they said its good enough as long as you're able to damage Atheon/Crota. Even if we gotten a couple of wipes, we still continued on and eventually complete the raids. We even had lol moments when fireteam members die especially: Me FoHing the fanatics in the middle area, then getting ran out of time to cleanse, falling down into the holes at the first part of CE, lastly, alerting the Gorgons ROFL! Right now, KF doesn't have the good moment feeling as much as the Y1 raids and the requirements are a bit over the top compared to Y1 raid requirements. Recently, was asked by a three man party to do KF hard mode run. I said ok so I joined them in orbit waiting for others. The leader told me if I have both the Spindle and ToM, I replied: "No but-" *Quickly booted me out of fireteam*. Wow. Sent him a message saying that: "You're unbearably sad if you prefer having popular weapons over having good knowledge of the raid. Don't come in to me and cry at my toes if you can't beat it without my help." After at least an hour and a half later, the fireteam leader sent a reply message saying: "We couldn't beaten the raid. Next time, have a goddamn Spindle and a ToM if you want to be a good KF runner scrub." Send back a reply telling him: "Next time, put in more details in the message BEFORE you let me in. It wasn't my fault that you morons gave up since you booted me, it was your amusing requirements and poor planning of invitation that screwed your run. If you rely too much on specific weapons than knowing what to do in the raid, you will never complete them. Do easy mode if you're still struggling. Calling me a scrub yet, you lost your run for not letting a potential teammate help you." *blocked* I'm not saying that I want to do KF runs really, just giving heads up what is like to be a type of person with a bad attitude about not having a specific weapon for the run. Tl;DR: Not only relying on popular weapons such as the Spindle or ToM over knowing the mechanics is bad, but the negative attitude and the ridiculous requirements needed by fireteam leaders to make runs can make some raids not enjoyable and unsuccessful. Happy raiding y'all!

That's why I don't raid anymore now it's bad players not telling the truth on saying they done kings fall before. Or they want to be carried in hard mode. GO to normal mode and learn the raid I and not helping anyone if they did not go through normal mode first.

Waaaaaaah, people won't do what i want to do and im a lazy fvck and won't start my own with my own requirements but i'll still blame it on everyone else and not take any action or responsibility. Thats what you sound like.

You've done the raid 5 times... so you haven't been teaching so many people... Other than that, those who never raided before can create their own fireteam. No reason why they must join a top tier team who want to do it as quick as possible

Need help running King's Fall. Never completed it before just got to war priest that's it. I'm 319 light don't have spindle or touch of malice. Ps4. Psn: o-Fiend-x

You can use the best weapon (tom, spindle..) to finish the raid faster. Its not only about completing the raid, but to complete it fast. The raid is out for many months now so if people don't have ToM or the spindle they are beginners. And it's coherent to ask for not beginners players too. It will be harder for them to find a group but that's normal the raid is out for months. So i think it's fair if you ask for anything to raid IF you match your own requirements. (You can look at my raid completion, I did carry maaaany people but sometimes (recently it's most of the time) I also don't wanna hear about beginners.