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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by SpaceMarine8584: 1/7/2016 6:17:19 PM
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Bungie is conditioning you to accept microtransactions

So we know that Bungie deliberately exploits the same addictive behavior mechanics, used to keep gamblers addicted, in destiny, to keep players playing. Bungie's current head of User Research, John Hopson, holds a Ph.D. in Behavioral and Brain Sciences from Duke University. Before he was hired by Bungie in 2002, John wrote an article explaining formulas to get gamers addicted to games, which many were based on lab mice experiments. u/stauffenburg at the destiny subreddit wrote up this summary, the full reddit post follows below in the quote. [url=https://m.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2itlvw/destiny_addictive_formula_detailed_by_bungie/][/url] Initially, we were promised that microtransactions would be cosmetic only. However, with SRL that changed, ever so slightly. With SRL, a supposed "free*" update, you had to spend $10 on a record book, so you could keep the gear you earned and grinded for. Now call me crazy, but having to spend $10, half the price of 2 sets of DLC (The dark below and house of wolves), just to keep rewards you earned after hours of effort, is not free. Besides, with the DLC, we got new gear, new missions, new raid and PoE. With SRL we got 2 tracks and terrible, inconsistent physics. This was both a test and bungie training is to accept microtransactions as normal. [b]After all, why spend months developing DLC, when players will pay half as much for much smaller pieces of content?[/b] This is exactly why bungie isn't releasing any DLC in year 2. This is exactly why most mobile games are "free to play" and so profitable. See the South Park episode about free to play for a great summary of the underlying mechanics, which, coincidentally, are the same addictive mechanics exploited by Destiny. So now here we are, awaiting an update, which will include more microtransactions, [b]I promise you[/b]. The players who don't like microtransactions have left and are already leaving, but bungie doesn't care. A small number of users can easily spend 10× as much on microtransactions than regular customers would, who just buy the expansion once or twice a year. Just look at Payday or DayZ for examples of gaming communities which were outraged by microtransactions, left, and ultimately killed off the games, only for the devs to finally realize their mistake and reverse course. [b]But it was already too late and the games effectively died[/b]. Each additional item offered via microtransactions, lowers your resistance to microtransactions, making you more likely to buy them. Hiding behind the "it's only cosmetic!" excuse works until eventually, most of the community accepts microtransactions. We already see them used to "skip the grind" which is hilarious, because bungie made the grind so long, purely to entice you to pay to skip it! People are paying to [b]not have to play a game they paid for[/b]! Once microtransactions become more acceptable, you'll see heavy ammo synths, 3 of coins, sparrows, emblems, shaders, ships, all for sale for silver. Then one day, once the remaining customers accept microtransactions, you'll finally see pay to win. Death by degrees. The community won't accept big changes all at once, but given enough time and very small changes, one after another, you eventually get to the same place. Only now, the community is on board. A frog will jump out of a pot of water already boiling; but if you put it in cool water, and warm it gradually, by the time the frog realized the water is too hot, it is already too late. This is happening in politics currently. I'm posting so that doesn't happen to destiny also. I love what this game was advertised as, and what it could be. I'll be damned if I will sit quietly and let some greedy executive ruin what could've been one of the best games. Finally, here's a great video summary of the addictive mechanics bungie exploits to keep you playing and paying : [url=http://www.gamespot.com/videos/the-point-destiny-the-hardcore-gamers-slot-machine/2300-6425852/][/url] ... [spoiler][quote] I have been doing some serious digging, and have stumbled upon a article([url=http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3085/behavioral_game_design.php][/url]) written in 2001 by Bungie's current head of User Research. John Hopson(Head of User Research) holds a Ph.D. in Behavioral and Brain Sciences from Duke University and is currently the chairman of the IGDA Games User Research SIG. Before he was hired by Bungie in 2002, John wrote an article explaining formulas to get gamers addicted to games, which many were based on lab mice experiments. Once you read the article you can see tons of these examples for each of his formulas to get people hooked on a game. I would post each theory in its entirety on here but I feel like that violates the guidelines because its pretty much the whole article. If I can post it that way then let me know, but for now I will post each theory title in the article and summarize it for the lazy and relate it to the destiny formula. CONTINGENCIES AND SCHEDULES To keep lab rats interested in food and extend the supply of food on hand they limit giving food to the rat to certain circumstances, instead of every time he does what he's supposed to do to get food. You can see this being used in Destiny's reward and loot system. It also mentions giving random power ups which can be related to PvP Heavy Weapon Ammo drops, and how your guaranteed one super in an match without doing good RATIOS AND INTERVALS Talks about two different contingencies, fixed ratios schedules and interval variable schedules. Fixed Ratio- Is a very distinct pattern that gives a burst of activities to do at a time but then followed by a long pause. For example, in RPG you try to level up by gaining experience but once you hit the new level you have to go get more experience to try to get to the next level. The "pause" is what keeps you wanting to push forward into the game, but if a "pause" is too long players will walk away. Some long pauses can be positive if it makes the gamer concentrate on another game feature that could get them hooked on. This can be related to having factions to level up to reach a high enough level to buy certain items from that faction. Leveling up new weapons and gear can create this burst of activity of trying to work your way up to unlock new mods. Everybody can relate to this long "pause" in Destiny, and I think they had a goal with it to get you start a new character where you literally restart the cycle that will keep giving you stuff to grind towards. Variable Ratio Schedules- Is a set limit to reach before being rewarded but the limit is different everytime. The limit will be randomly generated each time and the gamer will not know the set limit before the next reward. This encourages gamers to play knowing they have a chance for good reward with the mystery of when and what you could possibly be rewarded. This could be a possible relation to how the cryptarch decrypted engrams before patch 1.02. But this is the reason we do raids, strikes, and daily/weekly activites. SPECIAL CASES This goes on to explain other less common theories to game addiction that can be effective if used in the right way. Chain Schedules- Activities that have multiple stages that normally have form of puzzles and timed based enemies. This is 100% talking about the idea mechanics of the raids. Extinction- Game mechanics built in to gradually reduce a spawn in the game after every time it is received or killed. This results to eventually receiving nothing and/or enemies stop spawning in. I could be wrong but the only thing I can think of in Destiny that is similar to this is the invisible ascendant material limit for completing Public Events. At some point you won't receive anyhting but glimmer after so many public events. I haven't figured out if its weekly, daily, or planet based. Avoidance- is where the objective is to do something so that something negative won't happen. He uses his evidence with lab mice to prove this will keep you doing something. The example is where the mice were "shocked every so often" but the shock would be delayed for 30 seconds if they pressed a lever. There might be more places in the game where this is used but the only ones I'm coming up with are the raid. The beginning you hold pillars and avoid Minotaurs from coming in because it will stop the forming of the tower, you also have a similar concept on the first boss where you can't let them sacrifice. Lastly, we shoot the oracles to prevent being marked for a time initiated instadeath(very similar to the rat test). HOW TO MAKE PLAYERS PLAY HARD Here is where he brings in all of his theories on "what makes us want more in a game". He pretty much says the game needs to have his theorized aspects all tied into the game in the right amount of proportions. HOW TO MAKE PLAYERS PLAY FOREVER Here he says games need to always have something new for the player to do and have a consistent rewards with constant probabilities. I have read other articles that have bashed his article years ago. That makes me wonder if the arcticle was editted with rewording or removed some of the content since its original posting. Because in his post in 2012(http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/172409/10_years_of_behavioral_game_design_.php) he seems to have alot of influence by bungie to give a explanation from a post 10 years ago. Let me know what y'all think of this. I know its pretty much old news but I doubt anybody had actually seen a detailed description on how to make you addicted to a game and then that same person 13 years later releases a game built upon his core principles. [/quote][/spoiler]
English
#Destiny

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  • Sadly, most replies to this post are blind fan boys. To be expected from a shitty community.

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  • Edited by CozmicClockwork: 1/9/2016 3:42:42 AM
    TTK started to really turn destiny into a skinner box which was an experiment done by putting a pigeon in a box with a button. Whe the pigeon taps the button it gets food and it does this repeatedly even when the button no longer gives food thinking it will get its reward no matter what happens. This youtube channel called extra credits talke about it a lot especially when they talk about free to play games on the mobile market.

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  • Probably the best thing I have seen posted on these forums in a very long time. Thank you for taking the time to write that. Great read.

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    • This is a well reasoned, well written and well informed post. Having said that half of the community are sheep or simply don't care, the exact people microtransactions are targeted at ironically.............

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      • I spend a lot of extra money in the MMO I play, but out has 20× the content this game does. I'll never spend a dime on microtransactions in this game.

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      • I guess I'm not conditonable then, because i still haven't even spent my free 400 silver. This game is addicting though, and i don't have an addictive personality

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      • I'm a couple months shy since I stopped playing this game for a year, and coming back to this forum is amusing. There's even more elitists now than before! Bragging about paying to move forward... The flaws this game had a year ago have gone full circle.

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      • [quote]With SRL, a supposed "free*" update, you had to spend $10 on a record book, so you could keep the gear you earned and grinded for.[/quote] What is this stupidity?

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        • I would honestly just go to a sub base rather than micro transactions

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        • Edited by Indraga: 1/9/2016 12:59:49 AM
          Just getting this out of the way really quick before i start my actual response: You didn't need the SRL book to keep anything. Buying the book just let you get some more 100% cosmetic gear, emblems, and shaders. And there's nothing wrong with microtransactions as long as they are for 100% cosmetics only, so your little tirade about how horrifying paying for shaders, emblems, sparrows, and ships would be is silly. Look, as long as things stay cosmetic, that's fine. People who love Destiny and buy every emote(like me) will keep doing so. The purchases give us style but no more substance. All people who enjoy the year 2 DLC drops like SRL and extra quests and exotics will reap the rewards regardless of micro-purchases. It helps the whole community and will never result in one player getting the upper hand on another. If this changes, we'll see, but so far we've had 3 microtransaction drops at eververse and not a single one had a pay-to-play written anywhere. So shut up and enjoy the game or go play Halo5, where shit is definitely P2W.

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          • When it's pay to win we'll talk. The only thing that has changed since day 1 is now you can pay for a prep cook (Leveled sub-classes.) you still gotta cook the dish.

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          • Actually $10 is 1/2 of one dlc last year or 1/3 of the season pass. But good try. Good luck with your nerd rage.

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          • Yes they are. And as soon as i consider it to be a problem that i can't accept, i'll quit. Until then, i'll keep having fun in destiny.

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          • I left Destiny long ago.

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          • Just because of you I'm gonna buy 1000 more silver. Bite me bitch

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            • Why do you continue to post on bungies forums ? We get that you hate the game . Why not just leave and stop spamming the forums ?

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              • Destiny failed on numerous counts way before micro transactions were introduced.

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              • Wait, what? I had to buy the book? But thats bullshit OP, I kept the 3 sparrows I got for free, the 320 gear that dropped, and the Enblem. -blam!-ing idiot posts nowadays, dont even do any research.

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                • Don't forget, under the current model, cheating is often unpunished (effectively rewarding cheaters with other people's rewards), making a large amount of the playerbase used to quick and easy rewards. Fix the cheats, up the difficulty, suddenly all the trash are throwing money at the screen so they can pretend they're good.

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                • Waiting for new emotes is the only thing I look forward to in destiny. Its pretty sad.

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                • Edited by MajorWrecker: 1/9/2016 2:12:38 AM
                  Because there's always some malicious, master corporate plan behind every revenue implementation in a game. You can be optimistic, or be pessimistic. I choose optimism, because I don't think Destiny will go past "the line" into buying power.

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                • I am happy to pay for content. Doesn't bother me at all. If they make consumables only available for silver it will bury this game.

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                  • These posts make me laugh, I look at games like wow and neverwinter that have robust playerbase and thrive on Microtransactions to the point where they have 200$ packs of on game currency for purchase, and look at them, they are wildly successful. This is just one of the first triple a ventures into this form of gaming. You kids complain and cry as if this is all new.

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                  • Are you conditioning us to accept garbage posts?

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                    • I read the first line then didnt give a shit. Spend money if you want and if you dont want to then dont. Just shut the -blam!- up already. I played GW2. Shit tons of micros in that game, its how it survived. I didnt pay shit and was never behind. All this pay to win cry baby shit and oh noes dey taken muh munies

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                    • Dude it's just cosmetics.

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