So we know that Bungie deliberately exploits the same addictive behavior mechanics, used to keep gamblers addicted, in destiny, to keep players playing.
Bungie's current head of User Research, John Hopson, holds a Ph.D. in Behavioral and Brain Sciences from Duke University. Before he was hired by Bungie in 2002, John wrote an article explaining formulas to get gamers addicted to games, which many were based on lab mice experiments.
u/stauffenburg at the destiny subreddit wrote up this summary, the full reddit post follows below in the quote.
[url=https://m.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2itlvw/destiny_addictive_formula_detailed_by_bungie/][/url]
Initially, we were promised that microtransactions would be cosmetic only.
However, with SRL that changed, ever so slightly.
With SRL, a supposed "free*" update, you had to spend $10 on a record book, so you could keep the gear you earned and grinded for.
Now call me crazy, but having to spend $10, half the price of 2 sets of DLC (The dark below and house of wolves), just to keep rewards you earned after hours of effort, is not free.
Besides, with the DLC, we got new gear, new missions, new raid and PoE. With SRL we got 2 tracks and terrible, inconsistent physics.
This was both a test and bungie training is to accept microtransactions as normal.
[b]After all, why spend months developing DLC, when players will pay half as much for much smaller pieces of content?[/b]
This is exactly why bungie isn't releasing any DLC in year 2.
This is exactly why most mobile games are "free to play" and so profitable.
See the South Park episode about free to play for a great summary of the underlying mechanics, which, coincidentally, are the same addictive mechanics exploited by Destiny.
So now here we are, awaiting an update, which will include more microtransactions, [b]I promise you[/b].
The players who don't like microtransactions have left and are already leaving, but bungie doesn't care. A small number of users can easily spend 10× as much on microtransactions than regular customers would, who just buy the expansion once or twice a year.
Just look at Payday or DayZ for examples of gaming communities which were outraged by microtransactions, left, and ultimately killed off the games, only for the devs to finally realize their mistake and reverse course. [b]But it was already too late and the games effectively died[/b].
Each additional item offered via microtransactions, lowers your resistance to microtransactions, making you more likely to buy them.
Hiding behind the "it's only cosmetic!" excuse works until eventually, most of the community accepts microtransactions.
We already see them used to "skip the grind" which is hilarious, because bungie made the grind so long, purely to entice you to pay to skip it!
People are paying to [b]not have to play a game they paid for[/b]!
Once microtransactions become more acceptable, you'll see heavy ammo synths, 3 of coins, sparrows, emblems, shaders, ships, all for sale for silver.
Then one day, once the remaining customers accept microtransactions, you'll finally see pay to win.
Death by degrees.
The community won't accept big changes all at once, but given enough time and very small changes, one after another, you eventually get to the same place. Only now, the community is on board.
A frog will jump out of a pot of water already boiling; but if you put it in cool water, and warm it gradually, by the time the frog realized the water is too hot, it is already too late.
This is happening in politics currently.
I'm posting so that doesn't happen to destiny also.
I love what this game was advertised as, and what it could be. I'll be damned if I will sit quietly and let some greedy executive ruin what could've been one of the best games.
Finally, here's a great video summary of the addictive mechanics bungie exploits to keep you playing and paying : [url=http://www.gamespot.com/videos/the-point-destiny-the-hardcore-gamers-slot-machine/2300-6425852/][/url]
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[spoiler][quote] I have been doing some serious digging, and have stumbled upon a article([url=http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3085/behavioral_game_design.php][/url]) written in 2001 by Bungie's current head of User Research. John Hopson(Head of User Research) holds a Ph.D. in Behavioral and Brain Sciences from Duke University and is currently the chairman of the IGDA Games User Research SIG. Before he was hired by Bungie in 2002, John wrote an article explaining formulas to get gamers addicted to games, which many were based on lab mice experiments. Once you read the article you can see tons of these examples for each of his formulas to get people hooked on a game. I would post each theory in its entirety on here but I feel like that violates the guidelines because its pretty much the whole article. If I can post it that way then let me know, but for now I will post each theory title in the article and summarize it for the lazy and relate it to the destiny formula.
CONTINGENCIES AND SCHEDULES To keep lab rats interested in food and extend the supply of food on hand they limit giving food to the rat to certain circumstances, instead of every time he does what he's supposed to do to get food. You can see this being used in Destiny's reward and loot system. It also mentions giving random power ups which can be related to PvP Heavy Weapon Ammo drops, and how your guaranteed one super in an match without doing good
RATIOS AND INTERVALS Talks about two different contingencies, fixed ratios schedules and interval variable schedules.
Fixed Ratio- Is a very distinct pattern that gives a burst of activities to do at a time but then followed by a long pause. For example, in RPG you try to level up by gaining experience but once you hit the new level you have to go get more experience to try to get to the next level. The "pause" is what keeps you wanting to push forward into the game, but if a "pause" is too long players will walk away. Some long pauses can be positive if it makes the gamer concentrate on another game feature that could get them hooked on. This can be related to having factions to level up to reach a high enough level to buy certain items from that faction. Leveling up new weapons and gear can create this burst of activity of trying to work your way up to unlock new mods. Everybody can relate to this long "pause" in Destiny, and I think they had a goal with it to get you start a new character where you literally restart the cycle that will keep giving you stuff to grind towards.
Variable Ratio Schedules- Is a set limit to reach before being rewarded but the limit is different everytime. The limit will be randomly generated each time and the gamer will not know the set limit before the next reward. This encourages gamers to play knowing they have a chance for good reward with the mystery of when and what you could possibly be rewarded. This could be a possible relation to how the cryptarch decrypted engrams before patch 1.02. But this is the reason we do raids, strikes, and daily/weekly activites.
SPECIAL CASES This goes on to explain other less common theories to game addiction that can be effective if used in the right way.
Chain Schedules- Activities that have multiple stages that normally have form of puzzles and timed based enemies. This is 100% talking about the idea mechanics of the raids.
Extinction- Game mechanics built in to gradually reduce a spawn in the game after every time it is received or killed. This results to eventually receiving nothing and/or enemies stop spawning in. I could be wrong but the only thing I can think of in Destiny that is similar to this is the invisible ascendant material limit for completing Public Events. At some point you won't receive anyhting but glimmer after so many public events. I haven't figured out if its weekly, daily, or planet based.
Avoidance- is where the objective is to do something so that something negative won't happen. He uses his evidence with lab mice to prove this will keep you doing something. The example is where the mice were "shocked every so often" but the shock would be delayed for 30 seconds if they pressed a lever. There might be more places in the game where this is used but the only ones I'm coming up with are the raid. The beginning you hold pillars and avoid Minotaurs from coming in because it will stop the forming of the tower, you also have a similar concept on the first boss where you can't let them sacrifice. Lastly, we shoot the oracles to prevent being marked for a time initiated instadeath(very similar to the rat test).
HOW TO MAKE PLAYERS PLAY HARD Here is where he brings in all of his theories on "what makes us want more in a game". He pretty much says the game needs to have his theorized aspects all tied into the game in the right amount of proportions.
HOW TO MAKE PLAYERS PLAY FOREVER Here he says games need to always have something new for the player to do and have a consistent rewards with constant probabilities.
I have read other articles that have bashed his article years ago. That makes me wonder if the arcticle was editted with rewording or removed some of the content since its original posting. Because in his post in 2012(http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/172409/10_years_of_behavioral_game_design_.php) he seems to have alot of influence by bungie to give a explanation from a post 10 years ago. Let me know what y'all think of this. I know its pretty much old news but I doubt anybody had actually seen a detailed description on how to make you addicted to a game and then that same person 13 years later releases a game built upon his core principles.
[/quote][/spoiler]
English
#Destiny
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5 RepliesEdited by Alex_Supertramp1: 1/9/2016 11:40:24 AMI'm sure they are making money with microtransactions, but I doubt it is as much as they would make off of DLC. If they were smart they would release paid DLC and new microtransactions. Players are clearly falling off this game. That's undeniable. All the sparrow racing in the world isn't going to change that. I for one played like two races and got bores. That shit is lame. Except for 2nd sparrow races, haven't played Destiny in 2 months. And my roster which used to consistently have 4 to 6 pages of friends playing Destiny at any given time, is now a ghost town with maybe 2 or 3 people on Destiny at a time. If they don't announce something major soon, it's looking like the Division will hopefully have to be my go to... if they can deliver. At least until Destiny 2. I'm not sticking around for sparrow racing and pointless festival quests.
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1 ReplyStopped playing in October. Destiny is actually next in line on mu uninstall queue when I download my next game to free up some space.
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I didn't buy the Record book because it was too expensive, it should've been cheaper or free. I think the boost is dumb because it barely saves you any time at all. I don't have a problem with microtransactions, though. Many other popular games have microtransactions strewn throughout their games. CS:GO, LoL, WoW, Minecraft, GTA V, Dota 2, and many more have microtransactions and are popular as hell. Microtransactions can coexist with each other.
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1 ReplyEdited by Liondemiases: 1/8/2016 9:07:38 PMLol, I laugh at the people who say they don't care or defending bungie... How you can defend bungie when for a grand example, you spend $5 for a random choice at sparrow that you might have or don't. What?? Setting up gambling without a permit anyone?? Oh wait lets just put them in nf rewards for a chance for free to counter act that... Clever clever creatures... If you don't care you better, specially if you like this game, because as soon as you see buy this and get this exotic weapon "gally!" Your ass going to be crying quits... It's a shame, this is a great game...
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3 RepliesFuuck destiny, haven't played in a while, staying in great shape, happy, but sad seeing all my friends list login every tuesday and weekened running that steel wheel thinking Destiny will do something for them. Just saying, WARFRAME STILL KILLS DESTINY!!! XD Better controls/weapons/everything_ lol goddamn zombified desticles... kill this game off already_ <3
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Lmfao This parody again.. https://youtu.be/BbMqAeYo2uE
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Edited by BeanTwenty3: 1/9/2016 11:35:16 AMAt first I thought "anotherr one" after having read it I have to say very well put and I completely agree. Honestly I haven't played destiny in months I think I logged in had one pvp match a little while ago then just logged off again. While I love the game it's not what I was expecting and doesn't seem to be getting much better but I'll definitely keep my eyes on it However mechanics etc to keep people playing? This is in a lot of tittles and has been for years now this is not anything new
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I stopped getting the micro transactions the second I heard about the dlc this year or lack of it
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Bump.
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Liked this a lot matey, thanks for the info;)
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Bump this pretty much kills my appetite to it.
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2 RepliesI realized year one that destiny was built for people with addictive personalities. Just look at all the people below defending Bungie even though they have been caught lying more times than we can count.
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Very nicely put. Couldn't agree more. Bungie is really good at conditioning people and putting out information in a way that makes it seem like they are answering questions, but in reality are not saying a darn thing. Example- past 3 or so weekly updates. Quite literally nothing has been said about the game in about 3 weeks, but they still fill up a whole page with nonsense paragraphs. People need to use their minds and call them out on their shit in order for this behavior to stop, or just let this game die.
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2 RepliesNormally I ignore these post, but this is very we'll done and probably correct. Srl was the destiny moment that caused me to leave, will I be back? Maybe but I'm hoping not, this isn't a game it is an addiction.
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It's always nice to see a post about this issue every once and a while and you are 100% correct. Each new micro-transaction is a test to gauge how much we are willing to pay for so little. Sadly, those who try to convey this to people are deemed as extremists and "misinformed." After all... Bungie would neeeeeever do this to us... riiiiiiiiiight? If companies could be honest with us and make a game that they believe in with transactions not meant to swindle us, I'd have complete faith that Bungie is trying to do right by us... It is a crying shame that that is not the case.
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Yep, this is exactly it and it's pretty sad. I still choose to play, but I'm definitely aware of what's going on and have my eye on them. Hopefully it doesn't get completely out of control, but I have a feeling that it will. To play devils advocate, while I'm not a fan of micro transactions, people are free to spend their money however they want. So far, I haven't seen anything offered that is game breaking. If stronger weapons/armor were behind a pay wall, I'd quit immediately. It all boils down to this. Time is money. What is your time worth to you? Let's say $30 an hour (just for example). Let's say it takes 10 hours to grind and level up a subclass. That's $300 worth of time. For people who have plenty of spare time and like to grind, it might not be worth it. But if somebody who doesn't have much time, but has money, wants to skip the grind, it might be worth paying $30 to skip all those hours. I'm sure doctors and lawyers who make $100+ an hour play Destiny. If Bungie/Activision can make more money preying on those people then more power to them I guess. As long as it doesn't affect my experience. So far it hasn't. It does suck when things like monetary status enter the worlds of video games, but I don't see it changing anytime soon.
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Great post I saw this coming months ago that's why I quit back in October.
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Your stupid if you spend real money on silly things the only time i got 2 emotes was when they gave silver away but you can also get emote packs from nightfalls i would just like to point out. My friend has already gotten 2.
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If players need SOMETHING NEW That's a fail on bungies behalf straight away!
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Well to be honest, I've already had my fill of gambling. I know when to hold and when to fold, and Destiny and Bungie are two factors that I would definitely fold in. Too high of a risk for a nonexistent reward is what I see.
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Edited by CorvusLumen: 1/9/2016 8:42:05 AMI quit already lol nvm I gave in for mayhem
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Of course they are. Fortunately or unfortunately for them, I for one am pretty much done with it.
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Hard to condition when they hardly give ya a reason to play.☺
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Edited by OldboyVicious: 1/9/2016 1:08:53 AMI appreciate this post, and I do think that Bungie relies heavily on behavioral science to keep players coming back. Just a funny side note that may put microtransactions into perspective; They may be a recent addition to Destiny, but in the published original contract between Activision and Bungie, microtransactions are mentioned within the first couple of pages. So they at least planned for the possibility of them, if not planned to have them, right from day 1.
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Sadly you are right. I honestly feel they are going to keep poking at the consumers to see what they can get you to pay for. They're testing people and people should never be so blind that they can't see that. Not that I'm hoping for it but there will come a day bungie releases something for free and has you pay for something that makes the event easier to do. When that happens they will hide their hand so the community won't bite and act like they didn't do it on purpose.
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Sadly, most replies to this post are blind fan boys. To be expected from a shitty community.