The nerfs won't get fixed, OP. Destiny is designed around the grind. Moreso than anyone ever thought. Fact; ActiBungie has made the grind and associated nerfs so much a part of the game that they're planning on monetizing a way to skip the grind. The $30 USD level 25 Character Boost is only the first step in a future stairway of disappointment. No, the nerfs that cause more grind are here to stay. But for $40 USD, you can get that weapon you need to give you those last few Light points you've been agonizing over. For $40 USD, you can get that last piece of armor that finally gets you past the grind. For $60 USD, you can be level 40 right now. This is coming. Activi$ion (with Bungie's assistance) has figured out how to get the absolute most money out of Destiny's players, while simultaneously giving the players less and less actual content. Less content + more and more mind-numbing grind = payday for ActiBungie. So no, those nerfs are not going to get "fixed" any time soon. Or even at all.

Something simple we can ALL DO... Tl;dr With this post and most likely more, I hope to bring to light a VERY IMPORTANT issue that is affecting the gaming industry and gamers as a result. Something that has been on my mind for a while. More on this later. I have been a gamer for some time. Since the Pacman days. Hopefully some of you remember! :) I have enjoyed many games since then. Asteroids, Space Invaders, Pitfall, Joust, Bomberman, Ghosts and Ghouls, Contra, 1942, Street Fighter (errrah, errrrah, errrah!) Area 51, Virtua Fighter, Tekken, Doom(where my love for FPS games developed), MechWarrior, GranTurismo, Ace Combat, FF7(don't get me started), Black, Call of Duty 3, Halo, Halo 2, COD MW, MW2 etc etc. During my time over the years playing I've noticed a trend. Video games of old were completed games, games with very little issues/bugs, that were GROUND BREAKING, INNOVATIVE and COMPLETE with LOTS of content to keep me busy for a long time. A good value for my money. Lately, I've noticed a trend that games are increasingly buggy with very little content which is extended (in bungies case replaced) with the purchase of the next dlc. Not to mention copy and paste jobs from previous games to make the "next franchise" which is, imo, a VERY lazy and shady way to make a "new game". As most people are aware by now the stories and theories of destiny being chopped up for dlcs, glitching into cut content, the 404 architect, the kotaku article, Joe Staten and Marty O'Donell leaving bungie, which interestingly enough resembles Infinity Wards creators West and Zampella leaving activision to create their own company, Respawn Entertainment...I digress. bungie has obviously made a beta game which they charged us anywhere from $60 to $100 for with so little content its not even worth mentioning. They have made a minimum viable product that neither is ground breaking or innovative. On top of that, they expect us to give feedback to help them make destiny into the game we expect!? Shouldn't that have been done already? Should I have to pay for a MINIMUM VIABLE PRODUCT to then help to design it!? Talk about putting the cart before the horse! The obvious bait and switch tactics from E3 of 2013 and 2014. The blatant lies about respecting players hard work and time spent in grinding over the last year. Voiding all the previous raids with ttk. The LOSS of content with tkk and previous dlcs. Never mind the obvious pay wall, planned obsolescence, Ponzi scheme and almost extortion like tactics used to squeeze more money from us gamers. But wait, making money is not unethical. It sure isn't!...it's THE WAY in which that money is made that is unethical... https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Z_LE7HXLlDo But wait...other games have done the same. Games like WoW, COD etc etc. But let me ask you this...if a thing is openly practiced or done, does that make it right!? Absolutely NOT! This is where I see and fear the unethical business practice will continue if we don't do something about it. So, then, what can we do about it? The answer is simple and something that all with a responsible and conscious mind can do. Two simple things... 1) STOP Preordering. The benefits of preordering DO NOT outweigh the negative side effects that come with it. By preordering we are saying to the game producers and publishers that we don't care what quality of game you make. Every time we preorder, we are fueling and justifying the unethical business practice imposed against US. PERIOD! We are sometimes our own worst enemies. I have preordered games before, but after destiny, I now understand the error of my actions. NO MORE! No more preordering will ensure and motivate the producers and publishers to make better games. 2) BOYCOTT Vote with your wallet! Every time we give more money to companies that use such unethical business practice, we shoot ourselves in the foot! Again, giving more money only justifies their behavior and only continues the fleecing of US, the gamers. IMO, a boycott is the ONLY thing that will MOTIVATE the producers and publishers to change for the better and make the games we ALL deserve! It's obvious they want our money and we want better games...fair trade right!? They don't get anymore money until our issues are resolved. Shouldn't the BILLIONS OF DOLLARS they've made from us ALREADY be enough!? I'm just saying... Bungie is not what they used to be without Joe Staten and the MANY designers that were there during the halo days. There is no trust because they(bungie) have demonstrated THEY can NOT be trusted time and time again. Bungie has shown that they, on MANY occasions, they either ignore A LOT of good ideas from many people like Malphisto, a whole bunch of others and even Lost Sols, whom have had outstanding ideas...or that they are either incompetent or just unable to implement those ideas. Innovative rather than planned obsolescence or extortion/ponzi scheme/pay wall tactics Right!? https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/157307267/0/0 But yet they can make purple balls glow at the tower, pointless emotes and patch loot caves and fix "issues" with posts going missing REAL quick, sometimes within the same day! But yet the BIG issues go unnoticed or not even acknowledged! Issues like dedicated servers and fixing obvious lag with pvp and even pve! Optional matchmaking...don't get me started...upgradeable year 1 gear. Vault space. The loot system. REMOVAL of content for non ttk/dlc buyers. Many more issues still. But I just listed the big ones. And through all of this, what has been bungies approach to the issues they have fixed? 1 step forward and 2 steps back. And I'm not talking about Paula Abduls song neither. For every fix they create more issues, like with the increase in vault space. It was nice and should have been implemented since launch...but was instantly nullified with all the gear they made obsolete with ttk. Then again what do they care when they have our money? Previous currencies nullified with the next dlc. What do they care when they have our money? An obvious beta game for $60 to $100 was sold to us but yet they talk of potential with ttk, when IT IS, WAY PAST, the potential part. Day 1 should have been the proof! But what do they care when they have our money? HoW was bought by many just before ttk. And now all of HoW, Crota and VOG is pointless. Almost all the exotics we have now...some of them just recently found...less powerful than any green or blue weapon in ttk! But what do they care, they have our money? We ask for optional matchmaking and their response? Remove some matchmaking! Cause they already have our money! bungie has shown to us that as long as we continue to give them money, they can make any changes they want regardless if we asked for it or not, why? Because we agreed to their terms when we gave them more money. So...it's fairly obvious that no matter how many great ideas are presented to bungie...no matter how many fixes are brought to their attention...they simply don't care because they know that a lot of people are going to throw money at the screen. They have shown their intentions through their actions and in most cases, inaction! The ONLY thing that WILL motivate bungie and activision or any other company that uses unethical business practice to change for the better and learn how to treat their customers is a BOYCOTT and REFUSING to preorder. I simply refuse to pay $100 for a beta game and then tell them how to make said game better. I refuse to pay them to do THEIR job! Why should we have to pay to help make a game that SHOULD have been made ALREADY? We didn't have to pay to help make Halo or Halo 2 did we? And why should we pay to only have the rug pulled from under our feet with every "update" or dlc? So...until bungie and activision learn how to treat their customers and fix the big issues with the game I will certainly not give them more money...I will instead... [b][i]BOYCOTT BUNGIE AND ACTIVISION[/i][/b] I welcome suggestions and comments from other responsible, conscious and concerned gamers. Here's a petition that I believe will help us gamers send a message to bungie and activision, so they learn their lesson and other producers and publishers can take note to not follow suit with more unethical business practice...which will improve games for ALL gamers. If you are a conscious, concerned and responsible gamer...take a look, it's a lengthy explanation and has some great ideas! https://www.change.org/p/bungie-activision-bungie-activision-guardians-are-you-with-me-bungie-activision-enough-is-enough

i haven't played destiny for quite some time if you don't count entering the game do one race then leave, so im not up to date with the latest nerfs, unfortunately, even if people do agree with you, it wont matter, bungie didn't care till now it wont care in the future, they should have separated PvE from PvP from the start, make it so that the same thing as a set value for PvE and a separate value for PvP, or make every weapon/armor have the same stats all across the board, after all aren't the PvPs always claiming that is all about skill?, but none of that will happen, for that it would take work to actually make something and from what we have seen its in the recycling department that bungie is good at

Agreed. Sunbreaker before nerf: rains molten hammers of fury down on those who need smiting Sunbreaker after nerf: throws matches at enemies - warning may burn.

I've said it before, and so I'll say it again: [quote]They changed the difficulties of the entire game, rather than modify the multiple levels of difficulty that they had, so now they have made one group unhappy for being able to just do something that isn't overly difficult, and another group that thought that it was too easy. If they had left the multiple levels of playing the game, then people would have a better selection of difficulty choice. If they even made multiple levels for raids and other portions, people would have been better off. Imagine if they had implemented the PvP selections into multiple levels, then people would have had more of a choice; of course they could have added a PvP rating to certain levels too, to keep "road hogs" that where rated high to go into lower level arenas to just take advantage of lower level players, but at least you wouldn't be putting beginners in with those that have become proficient. As far as the weapons, because PvP play and PvE play are two completely different styles of play, they have not really recognized this, and make changes that effect both arenas of play, yet that affect them differently. Bon voyage — one more Titanic party. This has created a lot of unhappy players, and a whole lot of "whiners," to the point that many have left the game, and more seem to be claiming that they are ready to just leave because of the way the game is going. I have enjoyed the game in the past. I would play for hours. Now I don't, and that is due to a number of factors - one being high price for the content received; never-the-less, even with the higher price I still did enjoy the game, and would have still paid them what they asked. But I won't any longer because of the many other changes that they have made which has killed the fun of playing. So my message to Bungie and Activision: A positive and memorable customer-focused experience is what sets you apart from the competition. Creating a great experience is what will enable you to charge premium prices, because it adds unquantifiable value to your product. If customers feel they are getting more, they'll be more willing to pay more. When you give your customers a seamless experience each and every time, you create a loyal customer for life. Conversely, if even a small part of the experience is not to their liking, you will lose customers. If your dealings seem dirty, if it's to difficult for certain things, if the benefits of doing things are poorly implemented, if the ability to achieve something always seems to be too long, if an employee has an offensive attitude--all of these sway customers' perception of the value your product offers. That's why when it comes to designing the customer experience, no detail is too small. There are several elements involved: what customers see, what they hear, what they feel, what they do, how they are physically/mentally affected The feeling this combination of elements gives customers at the moment, or leaves them with, has a profound effect on current and future sales. How Can You Focus on What Customers Want? Pay careful attention to customer comments--positive and negative--regarding the five elements of a great experience--and insist your staff pay close attention as well. Practice observing patrons. If you own a restaurant and patrons make comments about the size of the font on the menu, or if it's common to see them squinting, you should recognize immediately that these are details that need to be reconsidered. If you regularly see patrons eating with their coats over their shoulders, it's likely they're cold. But you think that the restaurant's at the perfect temperature, or so you say! Well, you may be comfortable, but if your observations paint a different picture you need to ask yourself whose comfort matters more, yours or your patrons? As the owner, you should spend time every day in the areas your customers spend the most time, listening and observing. To incentivize your staff, you might give a small prize every week to the employee who notices (and documents to you in writing) ways in which customers could be made happier and more comfortable, little details that might make their interaction with your business easier, more pleasant, more fun and more memorable. Anonymous reviews and comments are certainly useful, but not enough people will fill them out so they become an accurate barometer of what is really going on (unless, of course, the same comments keep coming up). This is where any business has an advantage over other companies. Many companies rely on formal surveys and more structured ways to gather information on what their customers are thinking and feeling; this is time-consuming. Remember; you are not your customer, and the experience that accompanies the purchase of your product is not only important, it can be more important than the actual product itself. [/quote]

The only fun weapons in pve are.....oh there are none. Becuase bungie hunted down the fun and destroyed it.

mega Bump!!!!!

yep. nerfs above all else have hurt the game for me more than anything. We have not taken a path to becoming more powerful. Only weaker

So true. I've been posting this same basic idea for a year. It's such a shame that PvP crying over balance has to affect the fun in PvE. If they can balance varying light levels in PvP, they can do the same with weapons. It's just laziness on their part as well favoritism toward PvP.

Its so friggen lazy of them. Why in the hell do the Crucible Nerfs HAVE to transfer over to the PvE? I mean, is anyone even really going to be opposed to that? Do we really feel sympathy for the computer? it isn't even hard to do, you just have two sets of stats for each weapon. I mean, I realize they had developers leave, but come on now... This is Bungie. I expect a LOT from the creators of Halo.

Once they finally announce the separation, if ever, I think they should remove all nerfs in PvE; basically, start over. Then, balance PvE from there based on data and satisfaction. Going forward, having two(or more) environments to balance would solve a lot of problems while giving an opportunity to really enhance both gameplay experiences. While they're at it, they should provide higher difficulty options for all the content and let us upgrade our Crota/VOG gear.

The supers and subclass abilities were designed with PvE in mind. Same goes for most of the weapons. In PvE we face some tough enemies that we need powerful supers and weapons in order to defeat them. Whenever a super or weapon (especially when it's all weapons of that type) are nerfed it's as if the enemies are buffed. The supers that are designed to clear adds aren't doing the job they were designed to. Weapons that performed well get dismantled or stored in the vault after they're nerfed to ineffectiveness. If adjustments have to be made for the sake of PvP it would be better if it affected PvP only.

Bungie has clearly implied that this game is strictly based on PvP. Everything they do, is to cater to PvP. PvE is just a "bonus" they've added to this game. It really doesn't play an important role. At least it doesn't seem like it gets any love to be considered a valuable part of the game.

Bump. I feel like that's why this game isn't fun. Anything fun implemented and people cry because their favorite weapon isn't the best, and therefore isn't fun. Do it gets needed so that it can be just as unfun as every other shitty super, gun, movement, etc. they make it so that one thing is always better, so the other things aren't as viable, and then eventually it gets needed, and something else is suddenly marginally better than the other things, and it will get nerfed.

It will be an epic event if they separate the two. Idk how balanced pvp will be but I know pve (hopefully) will be the shit again without the crushing pain of pvp nerfs.

Well said

Agreed. I worked hard to make these weapons awesome not boring. "I didn't train years as a ninja to just walk around in black pajamas!"

Nerfs have ruined this game, I hardly bother anymore, don't see the point of obtaining something good, it'll only get destroyed in the next patch. The "balancing" has been a train wreck.