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Edited by gr8b8:
11/25/2015 8:11:01 PM
436
Yes, snipers are becoming a slight issue
So before I start, I'll say this before anyone else does.
Yes, I love to use a shotgun
Yes, I have a .97 KD (learning to play pvp took it's toll)
Yes, I main a hunter (since apparently using a specific class makes me whiny?)
Hell yeah, I used thorn like crazy when it was king.
If you're going to ignore the post and comment about how these are "the only things you see on the forums now" and how I should just "stop whining and git gud", the back button is on the top left of your screen. Please click it.
I can agree that snipers are by far one of the weapons that take the most skill to use in this game. If you don't get that headshot, you'd better hope that you can lay off another body shot quick.
But here's the thing, the amount of "skill" they require really isn't all that much. Hell yeah, it requires a lot more skill than a shotgun ever did, but in reality it isn't that far off.
I can agree that shotguns needed a nerf, the range they were killing from *cough felwinters conspiracy* was ridiculous. But they were just nerfed so much that now all I see when I turn any corner in any map is a red glare. I legit have people quick scoping me from hand cannon range.
So I decided to give snipers a try. I watched all of TrueVanguards tutorials, practiced for 10 minutes, and went into a control match with my 1000 yards of aim assist. I did incredibly well, and continued to do so for 5-6 matches after until I switched to my shotty again.
Just to make this clear, I [b][u]DO NOT[/u][/b] think snipers need a nerf. They do what they're supposed to do, they kill from a long range. What I do think is that we need to introduce mechanics that make snipers actually feel like snipers and not a really long scout rifle that can 1 shot you in the head.
Things like:
- Weapons sway (hold your breath)
- Lower aim assist (let's be honest, almost all FPS have aim assist, but destinys is by far the most forgiving I've seen)
- Bullet curve
Some argue that snipers shouldn't have sway because "Bungie never did it in Halo". But let's be honest guys, Bungie never gave you a half assed story and unbalanced pvp in halo either, did they?
Some of you might not share the same thoughts I do, and that's fine, this is just my opinion. I just really wanted to write it out and see if anyone else thought the same way.
Edit- It's remarkable how many of you choose not to read the post.
Edit 2 - Neat link to a post I found and wanted to keep tabs on https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/175295633/0/0
Edit 3 - a lot of you disagree with the weapons sway, and I can definitely understand what you mean. Weapon sway is a bad idea
Edit 4 - For some reason you guys are ignoring the entire post and talking about aim assist. This post is not about aim assist. And yes, I know exactly what aim assist is.
https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/175297958/0/0
English
#Destiny
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I think they just need to turn the aim assist waaaaaaayyyy down.
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I can see how being outgunned can be frustrating, but shotguns are still powerful in the crucible which is why people are switching to snipers to counter, congrats on your sniping tho! it's loads of fun
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1 ReplyEdited by Ghost J34: 11/23/2015 3:27:52 AM[quote]Yes, I love to use a shotgun[/quote] Laugh [quote]Yes, I have a .97 KD (learning to play pvp took it's toll)[/quote] Out [quote]Hell yeah, I used thorn like crazy when it was king.[/quote] Loud With that out of the way, Bungie will never add anything that makes Snipers harder to use. This is the weekend warrior's paradise; changes like that are not conducive to easy/unbalanced gameplay.
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2 RepliesEdited by Admiral_Floppz: 11/23/2015 3:16:23 AM[quote]Edit- It's remarkable that I abused thorn, use shotsnipers, have a poor kd and people still don't take me seriously[/quote]
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1 ReplyCouldn't disagree more. Until recently My most used special weapon has been the sniper rifle. Lately I've found shotguns running rampant with very few options to counter them effectively- except for shotguns. I now use a shotgun, and every game I play probably a quarter of my kills are from shotgun players rushing me and dying to my shotgun. It sucks and I hate it. Snipers haven't bothered me at all, but I do miss using one.
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Weapon sway is a no no for a game as quick paced as destiny , but I like the other ideas
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I don't really like the idea of holding your breath to get if a sniper shot cuz it just doesn't fit with the theme of destiny. I would like to see less aim assist tho. No bullet curve on snipers btw
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Edited by Lao_Tzuu: 11/23/2015 3:09:07 AMA poll with yes and no as answers would visually generate results you could publish:) Best of luck Guardian!
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Scrub
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1 ReplyI pretty much agree, a team of snipers holed up in every choke point in a map is tear jerkingly annoying. And i cant even exclaim "cheater!" To make myself feel better. However! I've noticed that IF you can break out around the outside and flank them, 99% of these new snipers hardscope. Which leaves me free to run around poking airholes into everybody while their mates dutifully wait their turn mere feet away. Fun times indeed
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5 RepliesThere's nothing in this game I hate more than snipers. It's infuriating to be walking around the map winning gun fights and suddenly have my head taken off by some prick a mile away. That being said, I find it hard to come up with many ways to change them. The aim assist argument is valid but then it might scare off anybody else from trying snipers. The sway solution would change how snipers work far too much and do more harm than good. I feel what bungie really needs to do is reintroduce fusion rifles into the meta. Snipers have been changed so little since the game came out and only now do we see them dominating, so I don't think their entirely broken or else more people would have jumped on them sooner. If we give people another, better way to deal damage from far away (but not too far) then less people will snipe.
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1 ReplyLegit sniping doesn't bother me it's the close to mid range quick scoping that does. Nothing more frustrating than shooting some one then have spin 45 degrees to the left and head shot me with a sniper from 50 feet away.
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Tldr but liked the start
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The beginning of your post makes everything else you say invalid. If it's such a crutch, if snipers were truly broken, you would be using them, clearly.
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1 Reply[quote]- Weapons sway (hold your breath)[/quote] The most important detail for not having this in Destiny (to me at least) is the inability to OHK to the body. It's pretty much one or the other. [quote] - Lower aim assist (let's be honest, almost all FPS have aim assist, but destinys is by far the most forgiving I've seen)[/quote] Okay, I can completely agree with this. The AA in this game is extremely high and should be capped at a lower interval for most weapons in general, especially snipers. [quote]- Bullet curve[/quote] I agree that this or something relevant needs to be added due to change in meta and the ridiculous kills at times. However I don't really feel liek this is the problem, it's more or less the map designs themselves. The maps in Year 1 frequently played were CQC so the shotgun meta truly didn't help much with that. Now we're facing a meta were maps tend to be more open or laned ((I can NOT stand Memento for this very reason)and with shotguns nearly being killed off, high-aim assist snipers are more suitable to the map designs. I honestly feel like this is what's resulting in the "easy" sniper kills many are gaining right now.
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2 RepliesEdited by ScrewLogic: 11/23/2015 12:12:16 AMSnipers snipe in open areas and long lines of sight----> avoid open areas and long limes of sight [spoiler]magic[/spoiler]
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2 RepliesI would like to see maps where you can't use a sniper rifle. People use them as a crutch in IB and Trials due to the 1 shot. Now you have 1-2 guys with a primary and running behind them is a sniper. You shouldn't see people sniping down hallways in close quarter matches.
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because you formed your position with such respect, and an honest preface of your lack of being or claiming to be pro, I will respond accordingly. snipers don't need a nerf, or a change in any way. I also don't think shotguns need much more done to their range. But what does need to happen is something drastic to the movement mechanics in the game, simply because map design cannot be changed once they're already out. They obviously made all these maps a long time ago, long before they ever made these broken ass shotguns. if not, then they are truly the biggest idiots on the planet. i'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. but back to movement mechanics, yes, movement mechanics are the problem. because of such flawed map design, strong movement mechanics like high sprint speed, blink, shadestep, increased control titan skating, and double jump make shotguns way more powerful than any other playstyle. if you get outplayed by snipers, at least on 99 pct of the maps, that sniper is WAY better than you. as per the update, they seem to have noticed that this is the issue as well. they are nerfing movement speed with shotguns equipped. only a few weeks will tell if it will be enough to eradicate the issue. as far as the sniper changes you have suggested, they would literally be unusable in this game. it works in other games where there aren't all the broken movement mechanics destiny has, but unless they slow things WAY down, adding sway would make them unusable. as far as aim assist goes, i think that everyone commenting about aim assist, does not actually understand how aim assist works. if someone is hard scoping a doorway and you walk through it and get shot, they were pre aimed, and aim assist had nothing to do with the shot. they were pre aimed at head height, and all that was required was a very slight movement to the left or right very quickly. aim assist isn't really an issue there. i think what people are really complaining about is the size of hit boxes. that is a separate unknowable stat, totally unconnected from aim assist.
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It's quite funny how everyone complained nerf shotguns...now snipers...you need to learn how to counter snipers and actually stop complaint please. It's so old now nerf for everything. The only thing besides maybe range on shotguns that needed to be merged was thorn and last word those were two problems. Stop complaining about everything for once and enjoy this damn game
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Edited by The Chaz12b: 11/23/2015 2:16:12 AMI don't think there is an issue, they work like this in pretty much every fps there is, minus battlefield. And I would really like it if people let the aim assist thing go, it's not a bullet drag rating, it doesn't make bullets track to the head. Watch some planet destiny videos and they break down what aim assist really is. I think what the main issue with snipers is that we are just seeing more of them. I noticed more and more people picking up sniper rifles after ToO came out, and people were only using sniper rifles that can bang on revives, (LDR, her benevolence). That in part to is imo thanks to YouTube, as I have also always noticed that when ever some of the big YouTube names like nKuch, or byf or KakisHD say something is good and you should get it, it's usually all over the crucible the next day. I think there is just more sniping in crucible just because more people are learning how to use them. Imo Edit: So I just re watched the planet destiny video on aim assist. Now with primary weapons it shows that there is a little bit of bullet pull with [u]primary[/u] weapon aim assist, but with sniper rifles it wasn't that much of a give if any. It looked to me that if a reticle was even slightly touching the head, it would count as a dome pop.
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You mean those pulse rifles with sniper range?
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1 ReplyI honestly blame map design. Some of those maps that are long and narrow seem like they were built for you to only use snipers Though while I want to chuck my controller to Mars when Im matched against a guy that headshots me around every corner before I can realize what happened, its hard to actually be mad. I couldnt do that shit and its pretty hard to be absolute godtier with a sniper rifle Its just one of those frustrations that I have to admit theyre better than me and my chance of besting them in every scenario is small haha
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5 RepliesHey, in reply, shotguns are good, snipers... Lets say this, bungies definition of a guardian is "a fallen warrior ressurrected to be a god", on a grimior it is stated " can survive without air, exos and warlocks are inhabited by magic that defys the laws of life-im no nerd, i pay attention, but bungie stated that sniper sway would make it feel like call of duty, destiny is intended to be futuristic, (a glimpse into the future of what we could become), eliminating the need to breath, the laws of gravity(triple jump for example) shotguns vs. snipers close range would win(people who use blink) bungie stresses the quick movement method for pvp, if you are consistently getting "quickscoped from hand cannon range" than it is obviously a part of your gameplay, you stated, " when i walk around a corner i see red glare", all it takes is a change to the way you play and move online. You control your guardian essentially, therefore with respect you shouldnt complain.
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I understand where you're coming from, and I'd have to disagree. If I'm a magical space [i][b]robot[/b][/i], I shouldn't have to hold my breath to keep a sniper steady. Secondly, I have magic space armor in which I have destroyed gods with my fists. And finally, snipers have been the same ever since vanilla except for the new damage falloff.
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I completely agree and I love to use snipers. I'm not a big fan of any of the scopes with aim assist. I actually think it gets in the way more often than not. Good post. Cheers.
