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Edited by RANGERX117:
12/12/2019 12:22:34 PM
65
The Warlock Problems Continue
For the record I believe that Warlocks are the best PVE class in the game and the worst in PVP......
Warlocks are usually the only class that has to give something up to get something. They either have a good neutral game and a bad super or a good super and and a bad neutral game.
Dawnblade took a nerf to get a buff, which was not a buff but really a change. Top tree dawnblade super is awful and the sub-class path is a high skill level path. (I had this debate with True Vanguard last night) its not a tree for the masses. The new exotic for Dawnblade is pretty bad in PVP and ok in PVE...not good enough to replace some other exotics but decedent in PVE.
Now compare this to the Hunter and Titan update. Focusing on the Hunter because I haven't dug into the Titan yet.
Hunter gets a OHK throwing knife with range and a fast animation. Good, Hunters needed this but for the people that say "but wait dude Warlocks get hand held" hand held has a charge time and the range of a shotgun. The new hunter exotic give you free damage by dropping a bomb when you dodge. If a hunter maxes out mobility he can do this every 9 seconds and as a void hunter he can drop a bomb and turn invs at the same time with fast animation. Very good neutral game and a very good super.
Warlocks with max recovery can drop a rift with slow animation every 9-10 seconds (I think but not fully tested it yet but its fast but a second or two really doesn't matter) but your stuck in one place. Good in PVE but not good in PVP. The new exotic for Warlocks give you a rift where your Dawnblade kills an enemy. Meh for PVE useless in PVP where you don't want to stop moving in your super.
I can go on about void and arc-locks as well but if you look at the history of Warlock tuning you see the same trend.....give up something to get something which is usually worse than what you already had (with one notable exception. Top tree arc-lock and arc -web and that is because the tree was soooo bad that something had to be done and the neutral game is situational in PVP at best)
TL;DR Warlocks have to give up something to get something inside their own class and are not balanced against other classes in PVP which is one of the reasons that Warlocks are the least play class in PVP. No other class has this problem.
Edit: I don't understand why Bungie does what it does when it comes to balance in PVP but two things here: First the top tree Warlock change will not cause it to be used a lot. Second since you play against other classes in PVP why does Bungie not balance across/against other classes for Warlocks? It seems to me that Bungie tunes Warlocks inside itself. Someone school me if I'm wrong here?????
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1 ReplyYup. The in air accuracy of a sub class system built on air accuracy is funny. Actually funny. The double dash is insane for crucible but the rest. Disappointed.
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4 RepliesExcuse you... Attunement of controll has both a top tier super and top tier neutral game in PvE. Attunement of hunger also has a good super and very good neutral game in PvE. Attunemt of grace has a top tier super and top tier neutral in PvE. Nothing has to be sacrificed there.
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7 RepliesIt’s almost as if they allow you to make one of each class and not limit yourself with arbitrary stubbornness.
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Fairly accurate post. Generally bungie has a hard time making a fair game. If it’s not an OP weapon, then it’s it’s something else OP that makes players quit PVP.
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You're wrong about that throwing knife it does not have a fast animation its slower.
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7 RepliesScissors: rock is OP! Rock: paper is OP! Paper: scissors are OP!
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11 Replies[quote]Hunter gets a OHK throwing knife with range and a fast animation. [/quote] That's a misconception. If you count the time from the activation to hitting your target then knife attack is not by much faster than nova's charge. And unlike warlocks, hunters can't pre-charge before engagement nor have any exotics that reduce damage while readying.
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5 RepliesEdited by Funky Osiris: 12/11/2019 4:48:59 PMTry on a purple wig and say i feel weak as a warlock it worked for the titans there are almost no warlock main streamers and streamers control the game
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Here - https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/254658125/0/0 That’s the link
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1 ReplyTop tree buff is pathetic. It literally feels like I have a jetpack on. I haven't played with it enough yet. But I felt like a duck in the air getting shot down constantly. Even when I was "evading" I still got shot down. How bout an invise in air evade like the hunter were we take zero damage while evading? The 3 orb solar shot is pretty badass. But the warlock is so damn slow and it only does 75% damage if all 3 orbs hit. That it's pretty pointless. Again though, I haven't used it enough to really decide on that. I might come up with a trick or two with it that will win battles more often then lose. Everything about the warlock rift should be removed from the game. From animation speed (terrible) to putting down rifts on kills. The hell is that? Go to that rift and it's still going to take longer to regen health/shield. Bottom tree warlock I hear got a instant health buff when you jump while in your super. Not sure if this is accurate. Again, haven't played enough to see. But if this is the case. That is cool. But I hear people crying about it already when both the titan and hunter class had instant health on dodge or kill. So -blam!- off people. warlocks had an instant heal losing a grenade. But it also took 5 times longer to get that health than a titan or a hunter gets theirs. Good thing about this update, it will still show warlocks that beast in pvp are still the better players on this game.
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1 ReplyThe animation for casting rifts needs to be sped way up. I’ve been shot out of my rift while casting it so many times, I’ve given up on using it in PVP settings. Once it’s cast, the healing is so slow that if you’re being shot by one or more people, it’s not enough to keep you alive. It’s the same thing for casting supers...stormcaller can be excellent, but you can’t use it the same way people use blade barrage or fists of havoc (panic slam), particularly if you’re trying to cast with low health. You’ll be killed before the animation is finished. I just wish they would improve the animation times for casting rifts and some of the Warlock supers...and maybe give them the same damage protection while casting that blade barrage has. I don’t want Hunters or Titans to receive nerfs, just fix some of the Warlock animation speeds and resilience when casting.
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5 RepliesEdit 2. Don’t even get me started on that hot piece of crap new Warlock exotic compared to the New Hunter exotic.
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7 RepliesTitans have shoulder charge, Hunters have one shot knives, Warlocks have handheld supernova. Handheld supernova, if used carefully and with a clever strategy, outstands almost everything in the game. If you combine that with the exotic that actually reduce grenade launch time and increases resistence while holding the grenade, you get an almost sure one-shot ability that is hard to avoid and to kill. Of course, the void super sounds bad compared to golden gun and whatever titan super, but it's not THAT bad. It's just about strategy, I've been using classes in PVP since destiny day 1 and I personally don't feel warlocks are that bad in PVP, I just feel that they might be slightly harder to use compared to other classes, though I feel using hunters is actually the hardest, but it's subjective rather than objective. Personally, some of the best PVP players I've met that were either with or against me were actually using warlocks with handheld supernova or were blinking with a shotgun. Strategically talking, they were taking advantage of every single warlock peculiarity and really had no issues defeating one eyed mask titans and hunters. Of course, the fact that they are the least used class in PVP might raise some questions, but I personally don't feel they are just that bad compared to other classes and subclasses.
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Bump. The warlock class needs a lot of love. Same as the Titan class given the void created by eye mask and the terrible class balance implemented by bringing this exotic to crucible. When is the warlock getting a husk / eye mask exotic?
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I don’t think the new dawn blade super is as bad as people say. Just because it doesn’t have easy mode tracking and doesn’t last as long doesn’t mean you can’t kill half a team or in the right circumstances a whole team in 3v3. I consider that a successful super. But when the other supers in the game are so easy and powerful literally enabling streaks I can see where people would think that way.
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Warlocks don't -blam!- we adapt.
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1 ReplyStop crying. That's what hunters are for.
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11 RepliesOh my sweet warlock, let me list the ways they slighted us. 1. Slow melee prone to whiffing. 2. Class ability that is sluggish and practically useless in Crucible. 3. Get flamed for having one one shot ability on one subclass on one tree. Not to mention that the super for that subclass is unanimously considered to be one of, if not the worst super in the game. 4. Storm caller is bugged up the ass with: - Melee that doesn’t count as a melee. (Mid tree) - “Health regeneration” on casting super with full grenade that is literally exclusively visual. (Top tree). - Randomly disappearing arc souls. 5. Astrocyte Verse doesn’t change weapon ready speed after blink whatsoever. (Literally the exact same with or without) 6. Blink and slide share a cool down for some godforsaken reason. Meaning that sliding directly after blinking multiple times just doesn’t work. (Same thing with Phoenix dive on bottom tree Dawnblade)
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2 RepliesDid you know that blink jump is also bugged right now? Try swapping weapons and trying to blink it won’t allow you to blink for three seconds. Should we get bungie notified of this?
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2 RepliesMAKE RIFTS MOBILE. ITS SO SIMPLE
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1 ReplyThe main issue I have with this season is that one of my favorite classes, bottom tree dawn blade, is just not fun anymore. The aim assist and super regen nerfs last season were needed, but after that I felt it was in a great spot. Not too powerful, you need to aim your shots better, and it didn't last a super long time. Burst glide and jumping around at Mach 10 was literally the best part, and now it's gone, and I'm sad.
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5 RepliesWhat if we got an exotic that was "place rifts while moving and rift moves around with you" I think that would be fair and make us competitive in pvp. We have no good neutral exotic like oem or wormhusk. It would be balanced because ppl would always see you coming around corners but would be really powerful at the same time.
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Hand Held Super Nova is non existent now that Oppressive Darkness is gone. The ability is so inconsistent that an artifact mod was required to make it good. The aim assist and tracking on the hunter knife is insane
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So I had an idea for the bottom tree dawnblade to give it some more utility and continue with the grenade charging trend. The idea is that you could do a quick charge animation with your grenade to cause an aoe explosion around you maybe the size of a rift and have it cause burning along with the initial damage. This would go with the explosive theme of the bottom tree and would give some extra utility. Say you are flying through the air and need to phoenix dive for health but there are enemies below you, you dive and immediately pop your grenade to give add clear. Maybe make it return grenade energy per enemy hit so you can continue to pop it off as you play. This might make the bottom tree more attractive with the recent nerfs and I dont think it would be op for pvp. It could be a good oh s**t button if you have multiple enemies around you. The explosion could be not quite enough to kill at full health with the lingering burn but the burn would add pressure to the other guardians that get too close. And it could potentially kill if the guardians have already taken damage. Just an idea. I like how bungie is starting to give the subclasses variety but I think they could take it a little further with some of the trees.
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Only Bungie can make me continually regret a single choice I made in September 2014 when I picked Warlock over Titan and Hunter.
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Edited by Jolt: 12/12/2019 8:29:56 PMtop tree dawnblade is really good in pvp. that being said it also had the steepest learning curve to any subclass so far for me. im still getting better with it but the sheer amount of speed from icarus dash is insane this is coming from a warlock 1 trick. warlocks are almost always bad in pvp and feel 1 dimensional in pvp. im very happy with the top tree changes.
