I wouldn't say it's hard because of the randomness. It's hard because everything in the raid is broken, and from the start has actually encouraged people to cheese it. If you do the raid the legit way you have to deal with: - 1- 6 people porting (anything other than 2-3 is an instant wipe). - Hobgoblins shooting you when their shield is up (usually a wipe). - Hobgoblins and Praetorians regenerating health after being killed (usually a wipe). - Oracles not registering as a kill (instant wipe) - Oracles marking guardians even though all are killed (instant wipe) - Portals not allowing all guardians to re-enter correctly requiring many to go through several times before actually porting back to VOG from Venus or Mars (not always a wipe, but usually it causes enough confusion for a few deaths). - Guardians dying inside of the relic shield (wipe depending on how many die). These are just the main issues with the mechanics of the encounter and have never been addressed in any of the so called "we're fixing it" style patches implemented into the game thus far. It's no surprise people want to push Atheon off the edge, you only have to usually deal with 1 port, if at all, and completely minimize changes for these said bugs. The risk VS reward now is just totally broken. The circle of people I raided with played daily maybe for a few hours or many. At launch when we hit level we were basically able to clear VOG the first time around legit, both on HM and Normal. Before I was running VOG HM legit in around an hour, now it takes 3, and I already have a maxed Hunter. So now I am just suppose to put more time in for the same gear for my alts because the game developers can't learn to take feedback seriously? Even if I do manage to get though all the bugs to get an Atheon kill the RNG system is so craptastic that I may just get a shader for the kill (which has happened already multiple times). Nothing like putting in 3 hours carrying people through HM to get a shader, man that is sweet. Zero incentive for your endgame raiders, even the Vex is neutered beyond being playable in PVE. Where is this so called patch for it you speak of? I keep seeing updates to Iron Banner and PVP while your PVP population dwindles. PVE is what is going to carry this game, not the PVP. I literally sat looking for a Control match for a half hour last night before giving up because so many people have quit. Do they even beta test the updates they are releasing? One team of Bungie devs running the raid would be all it takes for them to see the problems. Nope it's cool, they are running PVP with their level 25's giving away emblems, that's their priority. It's pretty obvious they don't plan on fixing this before the DLC, so that leaves me with pretty much nothing to do, with little to no incentive to push my alts past 29. I think most of the people I play with are in the same boat. My in game friends list was about 25% of what it usually has been over the last two days. You are driving away your player base by having absolutely zero support for endgame. The endgame is 1 broken raid, that is it, there is zero other endgame content. December will come and we will get 1 more raid, which will probably be broken as well. Way to hammer the nails into the coffin with your forehead devs...